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so basically we're not at the top of the

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food chain there's another species

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there's another life form or entity or

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Consciousness that is more advanced than

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we are you can be afraid of it because

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you know what if whatever this is

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decides that it doesn't want human

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beings around anymore it wants to use

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the planet for something else

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if you can see this type in Squirtle

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Squirtle

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into the chat

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Wesley how's it going hi Kurt uh it's

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going well yeah I'm got a lot going on

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as a sort of so does everyone else I

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think how are you doing great so you're

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known for your work on UFOs and you've

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written a New York Times bestseller

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contributed to Huffington Post and you

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have a book called surviving death you

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will have a National Geographic series

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which just came out premiered I think

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February 13th called UFOs investigating

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the unknown of which there will be a

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link in the description what else are

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you known for that I haven't mentioned

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what else am I known for well where else

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have I done maybe I would answer I would

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say um you know I did spend before the

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2017 New York Times story I did spend I

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started in reporting on UFOs in the year

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2000 that was my first story in the

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Boston Globe so I kind of had this whole

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phase of activity as a reporter before

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we had this you know this kind of cross

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over this line in 2017 where everything

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changed so I did spend a lot of years

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when the taboo was really dominant and I

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was just basically trying to get across

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the simple point that UFOs are real and

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they need to be paid attention to I mean

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even that was like a you know that's the

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basically was the theme of my book in

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2010 and even that was like a major

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thing for people to consider you know so

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it's just really because I had all that

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experience before 2017 I I just realized

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so much

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how things have changed and now you know

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official acknowledgment of the fact that

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UFOs are real just seems like almost

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it's passe at this point you know so

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anyway I've just been it's been so

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exciting to be part of this huge sea

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change that that happened in the last

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five years especially after banging on

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all the doors I did for so many years

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before that

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as you know theories of everything this

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channel is about fundamental reality

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mainly from a theoretical physics

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perspective as well as understanding

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Consciousness and subjectivity and so on

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so in that vein analyze this from a

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sociological perspective why do you

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think there's been such a plethora of

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Interest since 2017 toward this

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phenomenon yeah I think um you know the

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story in the New York Times revealed the

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fact that the Pentagon have been

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studying these objects for quite a while

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and uh

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you know that just set off this this

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kind of Snowball Effect I mean if indeed

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the Pentagon has been studying them and

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devoting resources and staff to that and

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of course the program there was very

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small and they didn't have money but

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nonetheless they were still

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doing the work

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um you know that made that made the

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point that well there's something to

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this and there were videos that were

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released for the story so it just if the

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Pentagon is paying attention to this

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there's something to it and then what

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happened is the the Congress wanted to

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be briefed on it

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or and and people were brought in to

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brief them and they received classified

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information and we have to remember

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that the lawmakers have access to

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information that none of us have

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so when they make their statements about

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the reality of this they're basing that

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on knowledge that we don't have and you

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know I think people forget that they say

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well why can't why don't we have more

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videos why don't we have more of this

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and that we have to remember that the

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people in charge have seen a lot more

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so you know it's just and then you know

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we had the June 2021 report in which

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acknowledgment was made in black and

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white of the reality the phenomena and

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that they're being the various types of

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phenomena that are being seen and that

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you know they had no evidence that they

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were Russian or Chinese at that point

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um you know statements by high-level

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officials both retired and active

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elected provincials in it so you know

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the attack it's just become this this

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public and

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a public thing you know uh the media

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went crazy with this

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um the 60-minute show in June of 2021 I

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believe it was was huge and so yeah

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there's there's now that now that it's

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sort of okay to take it seriously the

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taboo has really sort of stepped more

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into the back ground you know he's still

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it's still there

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but we're in a new world with regards to

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this and we even have we've had a

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congressional hearing we've had

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legislation passed that's allowing

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Witnesses and whistleblowers to come

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forward now and you know release their

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security Oaths or be protect and be

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protected in that process so

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there's just so much has happened I mean

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I think the why is people have always

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been interested in this and now that the

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lawmakers are involved

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and the Pentagon is involved and that's

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all public

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it's just providing a whole different

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picture of what this is all about we

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have of course the National Security

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side of it and the aviation safety side

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of it which has been emphasized a lot

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um which is a good reason to pay

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attention and a good reason to

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investigate or find out what these

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things are so what is this when we talk

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about the reality of this can you

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explain to people who are what is she

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referring to UFOs what are UFOs what are

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uaps

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I wish I knew what they were

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um I don't think anyone really does but

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what we do know I mean that what's

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happened you know in the last 20 years

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or so that our conception of what a UFO

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is has changed we don't even use the

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word UFO really anymore so when I first

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started there was all the Sci-Fi and the

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kind of popular culture attitudes toward

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it and the general thinking among the

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people involved in investigations was

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what they call the Extraterrestrial

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hypothesis it was sort of the simplistic

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idea that we're being visited from you

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know from the people who accept that

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this is not human it was a simplistic

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idea that we're being visited by beings

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in these this shape craft and they're

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coming from some other planet and you

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know fast forward to the way it's looked

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at now we now use the word unidentified

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anomalous phenomena and recently the

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word Ariel was changed to anomalous

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because the phenomena as it's seen now

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incorporates so much more than than the

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concept of some craft coming from

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another solar system or Another Part

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part of the Galaxy and it's because you

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know the phenomena takes so many

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different forms it has so many abilities

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it affects people's Consciousness

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sometimes it has medical effects on

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people it comes in just about every

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shape and size that you can imagine uh

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and it's just this mystery and nobody

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really and you ask what it is that's the

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big question uh that we seem to you know

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I I know that the military has collected

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a lot of data on how the the objects

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behave

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you know there's the there's

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characteristics that are consistent in

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terms of extraordinary behavior that

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appear to be technological

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but so we have data about what they look

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like and how they act but the actual

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essence of the question of what they

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actually are

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I don't I don't think anybody knows uh

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even those even if we have

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collected debris and we or we have

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crashed objects that are being studied

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uh by aerospace companies or by whoever

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in these very secret programs they might

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have learned something but even if they

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understand a little bit about technology

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we still don't really know what they are

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or why they're here or where they come

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from those are the questions that you

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know that everybody's so curious about

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and

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I hope we find the answer someday but we

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may never really understand what they're

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all about I don't have your suspicions

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as to where they come from and what they

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are I don't think my opinion is

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necessarily any more vowel than anyone

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else is when it comes to you know where

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they come from I mean I really don't

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know I think there's so many possible

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explanations and maybe there's a lot of

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different phenomena coming from

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different sources here or maybe it's all

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one we don't even know that

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you know and there are people that have

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discussed time travel as being involved

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inter-dimensionality that they're coming

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from some other mention and kind of

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bleeding through to ours and then they

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go back to their dimension

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or visitors from extraterrestrial

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locations in the universe or

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who knows what you know I mean I I think

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it's just every everything's on the

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table let's put it that way and um

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everything's on the table you mentioned

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medical effects yeah

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medical effects as in salutary or

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deleterious the medical effects are not

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anything you'd want to have from what I

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understand

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um and I mean I'm there have been there

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have been some papers and some writings

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about them that basically people will

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come too close to these things

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can have problems but have blood

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disorders or cancer related issues I

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mean I'm not I'm not up on all the

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specifics

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but there have been medical Effects by

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people who've had Close Encounters there

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have been government related medical

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doctors who have been studying these

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cases and I know Gary Nolan the the

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um geneticists or the biologist from

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Stanford is of course involved with some

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of these studies and so are others so

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uh and then you know yeah so I mean

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these these people are affected when

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they get too close

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um and I I don't know you know I can't

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go a lot into the specifics you have to

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go to The Experts who are doing the

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studies on them but

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um sometimes people have marks or on

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their bodies afterwards or nosebleeds

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but they're a lot more serious effects

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than that that can happen by the way

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have you seen the tow show before oh

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absolutely it's a wonderful show Kurt I

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watch your show a lot especially I mean

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I watch it mainly when you have us UFO

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people on so yeah definitely it's a

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great show and that means so much coming

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from you so I take this topic seriously

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and it's often difficult for me to

277
00:09:57,769 --> 00:09:55,980
disembroil from the more distressing

278
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aspects we'll just take a Meandering

279
00:10:01,310 --> 00:09:59,580
relaxed approach getting people

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introduced to this let's start with the

281
00:10:05,690 --> 00:10:03,720
2017 article called The pentagon's

282
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Mysterious UFO program walk us through

283
00:10:09,470 --> 00:10:07,500
the writing process of that how long

284
00:10:10,850 --> 00:10:09,480
does it take how do you get such an

285
00:10:13,190 --> 00:10:10,860
article approved do you pitch it to

286
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someone and what is the article

287
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:16,019
okay um well people may or people

288
00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:18,000
probably know that I it started when I

289
00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:20,339
had a meeting with Luis salazando right

290
00:10:25,310 --> 00:10:22,500
at literally the day he resigned from

291
00:10:28,009 --> 00:10:25,320
his job as the head of this program

292
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called atip in the in the uh you know

293
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:29,640
the advanced Aerospace threat

294
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identification program

295
00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:35,040
um which he was working on with some

296
00:10:38,030 --> 00:10:36,480
colleagues at the Pentagon and he

297
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:38,040
resigned because he didn't fill enough

298
00:10:42,829 --> 00:10:39,839
resources for being devoted to this and

299
00:10:44,690 --> 00:10:42,839
he wanted to make a point make his point

300
00:10:47,389 --> 00:10:44,700
the best way he felt to do that was to

301
00:10:49,310 --> 00:10:47,399
leave the job and so I was some

302
00:10:51,230 --> 00:10:49,320
colleagues of his invited me to a

303
00:10:53,690 --> 00:10:51,240
meeting with him in October early

304
00:10:55,850 --> 00:10:53,700
October of 2017 and that's how the whole

305
00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:55,860
thing started and I was

306
00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:57,600
um that's where I first saw the videos I

307
00:11:02,090 --> 00:10:59,519
was given a lot of documents I was shown

308
00:11:03,710 --> 00:11:02,100
you know the letter from Harry Reid

309
00:11:07,130 --> 00:11:03,720
which showed his involvement in all of

310
00:11:09,889 --> 00:11:07,140
this Lou's letter to the Secretary of

311
00:11:11,710 --> 00:11:09,899
Defense which was really powerful spent

312
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:11,720
a lot of time talking with Lou

313
00:11:18,889 --> 00:11:14,880
and then I went to my colleague Ralph

314
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:18,899
Blumenthal who is is a freelance we

315
00:11:24,170 --> 00:11:20,399
contributed to the New York Times and

316
00:11:25,490 --> 00:11:24,180
was on staff there for decades and we

317
00:11:26,810 --> 00:11:25,500
pitched it to the New York Times you're

318
00:11:28,670 --> 00:11:26,820
absolutely right you have to make a

319
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,680
pitch you have to get the editors

320
00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:30,720
interested so we were able to have a

321
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:32,760
meeting with a um a man named Mark

322
00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:35,279
Mazzetti who's the an investigator I

323
00:11:39,650 --> 00:11:36,959
think he's chief of the investigation

324
00:11:40,670 --> 00:11:39,660
Bureau in DC we had an in-person meeting

325
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:40,680
with him

326
00:11:44,690 --> 00:11:42,720
and they approved the story I mean they

327
00:11:46,190 --> 00:11:44,700
I mean I wasn't a little surprised how

328
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:46,200
could they not because we had we had

329
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:47,519
people on the record we had

330
00:11:50,930 --> 00:11:48,959
documentation

331
00:11:52,730 --> 00:11:50,940
and this was related to the U.S

332
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:52,740
government so that's the kind of thing

333
00:11:56,810 --> 00:11:54,839
they're interested in and then we were

334
00:11:58,430 --> 00:11:56,820
assigned Helene Cooper to work with us

335
00:12:00,410 --> 00:11:58,440
who's the Pentagon correspondent for the

336
00:12:02,509 --> 00:12:00,420
New York Times who's absolutely

337
00:12:03,769 --> 00:12:02,519
incredible what a gift that was I mean

338
00:12:05,389 --> 00:12:03,779
we never would have been able to do the

339
00:12:08,090 --> 00:12:05,399
story without her she was just what's

340
00:12:10,370 --> 00:12:08,100
her name one more time Helene Cooper

341
00:12:12,290 --> 00:12:10,380
and yeah she's the person who recently

342
00:12:14,329 --> 00:12:12,300
at the press conference a few days ago

343
00:12:18,170 --> 00:12:14,339
or last week asked the question of

344
00:12:21,230 --> 00:12:18,180
whatever that gen General Glenn van hurk

345
00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:21,240
about you know whether these objects

346
00:12:25,370 --> 00:12:23,220
that are being shot down could possibly

347
00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:25,380
be alien I mean she had the guts to ask

348
00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:28,260
that question but anyway that's an aside

349
00:12:33,769 --> 00:12:30,899
but um and she's also featured in

350
00:12:35,569 --> 00:12:33,779
episode one of our of our series that

351
00:12:37,310 --> 00:12:35,579
you mentioned that just came out so it

352
00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:37,320
was pretty amazing photos investigating

353
00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:39,060
the unknown right which people can see

354
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:40,980
on Hulu now and it was just amazing to

355
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:43,200
get her on camera I feel like she stole

356
00:12:48,410 --> 00:12:45,839
the whole first episode she was so good

357
00:12:50,690 --> 00:12:48,420
but anyway just so she's just an

358
00:12:52,430 --> 00:12:50,700
outstanding you know reporter who writes

359
00:12:54,829 --> 00:12:52,440
front page stories all the time for the

360
00:12:57,170 --> 00:12:54,839
New York Times on a lot of you know

361
00:12:58,970 --> 00:12:57,180
topics related to Pentagon issues

362
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,980
involving the Pentagon so anyway it took

363
00:13:02,569 --> 00:13:00,959
us so once we pitched it it took a

364
00:13:04,430 --> 00:13:02,579
couple of months to do the whole story

365
00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:04,440
we came out in December we probably

366
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:06,360
pitched it in mid-october or something

367
00:13:10,730 --> 00:13:07,440
like that

368
00:13:12,290 --> 00:13:10,740
it took a while we had to the big one of

369
00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:12,300
the big things we had to do was to get

370
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:14,220
Harry Reid on the record which was a big

371
00:13:18,590 --> 00:13:15,839
moment

372
00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:18,600
um we had to get a lot of stuff past the

373
00:13:23,449 --> 00:13:20,940
eyes of the editors who were very very

374
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:23,459
strict and very controlling when you're

375
00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:26,399
doing a story like this and um Helene

376
00:13:30,829 --> 00:13:28,920
Helene flew out actually to Las Vegas I

377
00:13:32,930 --> 00:13:30,839
met with Harry Reid in person

378
00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:32,940
and she talks about that in the series

379
00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:34,920
it's really funny how she talks about it

380
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:37,560
but when we knew when we had him we knew

381
00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:40,079
we had it I mean this was really

382
00:13:43,970 --> 00:13:42,120
he was crucial to the story because he

383
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:43,980
was able to verify the existence of the

384
00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:46,079
program and the fact that he was the one

385
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:46,980
who

386
00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:50,160
got the funding way back before atip was

387
00:13:55,550 --> 00:13:53,100
really atip he got funding for a Dia

388
00:13:57,710 --> 00:13:55,560
program that eventually kind of spawned

389
00:14:00,590 --> 00:13:57,720
atip but he was able to verify the

390
00:14:02,210 --> 00:14:00,600
program called the advanced weapons oh

391
00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:02,220
my God I might not get it right you know

392
00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:06,180
I'm sure systems uh it's a it's all set

393
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:07,860
people have to look it up you got the

394
00:14:11,810 --> 00:14:10,079
syllables correct at least yeah I know I

395
00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:11,820
mean

396
00:14:16,509 --> 00:14:14,220
um yeah so um

397
00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:16,519
and you know Egypt was sort of able to

398
00:14:22,490 --> 00:14:20,100
ride Road out from that program into the

399
00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:22,500
Pentagon and did a lot of work on

400
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:25,200
specifically on UFOs whereas allsup of

401
00:14:28,850 --> 00:14:26,639
course was much broader than that

402
00:14:31,190 --> 00:14:28,860
covering a lot of other things

403
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:31,200
so um yeah

404
00:14:37,009 --> 00:14:34,560
um so who resigns comes to you with a

405
00:14:38,930 --> 00:14:37,019
slew of documents on day one

406
00:14:40,910 --> 00:14:38,940
yeah I mean it really wasn't Lou Who

407
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:40,920
came to me it was Chris Mellon and some

408
00:14:45,769 --> 00:14:43,440
other colleagues who felt um you know

409
00:14:49,550 --> 00:14:45,779
that they should talk to me

410
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:49,560
um and so he was just sort of

411
00:14:52,970 --> 00:14:51,360
willing to go along with it you know he

412
00:14:55,370 --> 00:14:52,980
doesn't he's not fully responsible for

413
00:14:56,990 --> 00:14:55,380
that he's not responsible for me getting

414
00:14:59,389 --> 00:14:57,000
those videos or being shown the videos

415
00:15:01,250 --> 00:14:59,399
but it was a group of his colleagues I

416
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:01,260
mean I I think it's public knowledge it

417
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,600
was Chris Mellon and Hal put off and Jim

418
00:15:07,129 --> 00:15:05,519
semi then

419
00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:07,139
um who were there at the meeting along

420
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:09,720
with me and Lou um was there one other

421
00:15:14,689 --> 00:15:13,199
person I think I think that was yeah for

422
00:15:16,670 --> 00:15:14,699
the I'll tell you that changed my life

423
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:16,680
that moment I was just blown away by

424
00:15:19,970 --> 00:15:18,240
what I was being told and what I was

425
00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:19,980
seeing after all the years

426
00:15:25,129 --> 00:15:22,260
you know of what I'd been through to be

427
00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:25,139
given the story like this was something

428
00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:27,300
I never would have imagined happening

429
00:15:30,290 --> 00:15:29,220
the way that I works for myself is much

430
00:15:31,970 --> 00:15:30,300
different the way it works for yourself

431
00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:31,980
you have a much more professional and

432
00:15:35,150 --> 00:15:33,720
seasoned approach for me when I'm

433
00:15:37,009 --> 00:15:35,160
choosing a guest I'll hear about them

434
00:15:38,689 --> 00:15:37,019
once or twice I look them up here and

435
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:38,699
there over the course of weeks and then

436
00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:40,320
at some point I start to do a deep dive

437
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:41,820
this sounds like you just got thrown

438
00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:43,920
into the deep end right away is that the

439
00:15:47,870 --> 00:15:45,660
case or did you have some contact with

440
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:47,880
Chris or Lou priors to get some

441
00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:49,680
semblance of what's going to happen at

442
00:15:54,889 --> 00:15:52,260
some point no I I mean I I knew I had

443
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:54,899
known Chris for years so Chris Mel and I

444
00:15:59,449 --> 00:15:56,699
knew I knew Hal put off for many years

445
00:16:03,889 --> 00:15:59,459
even longer than Chris Mellon

446
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:03,899
um and Lou I believe had already I just

447
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,540
don't remember these the timeline but I

448
00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:09,120
think he had already spoken on behalf of

449
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:11,220
to the Stars Academy of Arts and

450
00:16:16,009 --> 00:16:13,199
Sciences remember when they did that

451
00:16:18,889 --> 00:16:16,019
initial press conference so I it wasn't

452
00:16:22,250 --> 00:16:18,899
like I mean I knew who he was

453
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:22,260
you know and um but I hadn't met him I

454
00:16:25,850 --> 00:16:24,240
hadn't talked to him I hadn't been shown

455
00:16:28,189 --> 00:16:25,860
all the things that I was shown at that

456
00:16:30,410 --> 00:16:28,199
meeting that's what was so significant

457
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:30,420
about it and and knowing that there was

458
00:16:35,150 --> 00:16:32,240
a possibility of bringing this forward

459
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:35,160
uh was really exciting

460
00:16:40,370 --> 00:16:36,959
were there elements that you had to

461
00:16:43,129 --> 00:16:40,380
leave out of the 2017 article

462
00:16:44,810 --> 00:16:43,139
there always are I mean we always every

463
00:16:47,329 --> 00:16:44,820
and I've done a whole series of times

464
00:16:49,009 --> 00:16:47,339
stories with the three of us and then

465
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,019
some with just Ralph Blumenthal since

466
00:16:53,210 --> 00:16:51,839
then there's always more than than they

467
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:53,220
give you space for

468
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:55,620
but that was a long they gave us a lot

469
00:17:00,350 --> 00:16:58,320
of space for that story and not only did

470
00:17:03,050 --> 00:17:00,360
we have the story about atip but we had

471
00:17:05,569 --> 00:17:03,060
a section about the Nimitz event and we

472
00:17:07,610 --> 00:17:05,579
had Helene and I had actually sat down

473
00:17:09,169 --> 00:17:07,620
in Washington with Dave fraver and spoke

474
00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:09,179
to him for hours about what happened

475
00:17:12,049 --> 00:17:10,140
there

476
00:17:15,169 --> 00:17:12,059
and I think this was the first time he

477
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:15,179
ever came forward so that was one aspect

478
00:17:18,530 --> 00:17:16,740
we would have loved to have included

479
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:18,540
more about that event for instance but

480
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,760
you know there's only so much space we

481
00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:22,319
would have liked to have included more

482
00:17:28,970 --> 00:17:25,500
about what they actually learned within

483
00:17:31,310 --> 00:17:28,980
the program about UFOs

484
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:31,320
and the story was not so much about the

485
00:17:38,270 --> 00:17:34,320
UFO phenomenon itself it was about the

486
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:38,280
fact that this this atip program existed

487
00:17:42,590 --> 00:17:41,039
and how it got set up and uh you know

488
00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:42,600
all of that one of the background was

489
00:17:45,770 --> 00:17:44,220
for that program and that's what the

490
00:17:49,010 --> 00:17:45,780
times was really interested in are

491
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:49,020
reporting on and then in 2019 when Ralph

492
00:17:53,630 --> 00:17:50,880
and the three of us did our Second Story

493
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:53,640
then we got to focus more on the actual

494
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:55,440
objects themselves which is what people

495
00:17:59,330 --> 00:17:57,120
really missed in the first one I think

496
00:18:00,770 --> 00:17:59,340
and we tried our best I mean we would

497
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:00,780
have there's a lot more we would have

498
00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:03,660
liked to have included in that story but

499
00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:06,900
um the editors at the New York Times

500
00:18:13,390 --> 00:18:09,900
are really rigorous and they vet

501
00:18:15,650 --> 00:18:13,400
everything and they're they

502
00:18:17,690 --> 00:18:15,660
basically what can go in and what can't

503
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:17,700
you know and you can you can argue for

504
00:18:20,510 --> 00:18:19,320
certain things you got to pick your

505
00:18:22,909 --> 00:18:20,520
arguments

506
00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:22,919
and at some point you just it's what it

507
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:25,020
is it is what it is you know

508
00:18:28,669 --> 00:18:26,760
um so it's not like we wouldn't have

509
00:18:29,870 --> 00:18:28,679
liked to have had included more we would

510
00:18:31,789 --> 00:18:29,880
have

511
00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:31,799
um but you know we're at the mercy of

512
00:18:37,789 --> 00:18:33,960
the editors and I think the second story

513
00:18:39,650 --> 00:18:37,799
in 2019 was so explosive because

514
00:18:42,110 --> 00:18:39,660
it did include

515
00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:42,120
descriptions from Pilots we had Ryan

516
00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:44,700
graves in that story and people just

517
00:18:48,529 --> 00:18:46,980
love reading about what the pilots are

518
00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:48,539
actually seeing what the objects look

519
00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:49,980
like what have they learned about them

520
00:18:53,390 --> 00:18:51,480
that's what was missing in the first one

521
00:18:55,549 --> 00:18:53,400
and what is left out is generally left

522
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,559
out because of reasons of space it's

523
00:18:59,330 --> 00:18:57,600
always space Oh that's the number one

524
00:19:00,710 --> 00:18:59,340
you always have a certain amount of a

525
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:00,720
word count that you're given you can you

526
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:02,220
can have you can make it this long so

527
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:04,080
you then we as the editor we as the

528
00:19:08,029 --> 00:19:05,520
writers have to determine what we think

529
00:19:09,049 --> 00:19:08,039
is most you know has the priority for

530
00:19:10,909 --> 00:19:09,059
that space

531
00:19:12,590 --> 00:19:10,919
but there might be things that they

532
00:19:14,810 --> 00:19:12,600
wanted to take out or that they want us

533
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:14,820
to add for instance in that first story

534
00:19:19,090 --> 00:19:17,760
they um wanted us to have some comments

535
00:19:20,990 --> 00:19:19,100
from Skeptics

536
00:19:22,370 --> 00:19:21,000
that's not something we would have

537
00:19:24,350 --> 00:19:22,380
chosen because we didn't think it was

538
00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:24,360
relevant to what we were writing about I

539
00:19:29,150 --> 00:19:26,580
mean there's nothing in the story

540
00:19:30,890 --> 00:19:29,160
that was questionable or opinion or

541
00:19:33,289 --> 00:19:30,900
something that a skeptic needs to weigh

542
00:19:36,529 --> 00:19:33,299
in on but they wanted a you know an

543
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:36,539
astrophysicist to say well we know we

544
00:19:39,650 --> 00:19:37,919
don't we don't know if they're you know

545
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:39,660
they're probably not extraterrestrials

546
00:19:43,130 --> 00:19:41,280
or something which we weren't saying

547
00:19:45,049 --> 00:19:43,140
anyway you know so they they were like

548
00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:45,059
maybe three paragraphs that had to be

549
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:47,460
taken up with comments from Skeptics

550
00:19:51,710 --> 00:19:50,640
that's not something we chose they're

551
00:19:53,810 --> 00:19:51,720
thinking in terms of perception

552
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:53,820
management I'd have to ask the editors I

553
00:19:57,169 --> 00:19:55,200
mean you just you know I can't speak for

554
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:57,179
the editors they just feel like I think

555
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:59,039
it's an idea that it has to be balanced

556
00:20:02,570 --> 00:20:00,480
in some way because this is such a

557
00:20:04,909 --> 00:20:02,580
controversial topic they want to just

558
00:20:07,370 --> 00:20:04,919
make sure that you know they're covering

559
00:20:09,470 --> 00:20:07,380
their bases in a certain way ladies and

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gentlemen gather around for a lesson in

561
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the mathematics of Slumber are you aware

562
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of the remarkable correlation between a

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comfortable temperature at night and the

564
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quality of one's sleep it's no secret

565
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that better sleep leads to Greater

566
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Fitness and increased productivity at

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569
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which has been proven to enhance Sleep

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with a peaceful and uninterrupted

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579
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traditional bedding which According to

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some Studies have been known to Harbor

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594
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everything so you know it's a juggling

595
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act

596
00:21:37,130 --> 00:21:35,400
um yeah but the editors make the

597
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:37,140
decisions like that what would you

598
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:39,120
include you had carb launch now you're

599
00:21:42,049 --> 00:21:40,799
allowed to take up the whole paper if

600
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:42,059
you like what would you include that you

601
00:21:47,090 --> 00:21:44,640
weren't able to include in 2017 to 2019

602
00:21:49,310 --> 00:21:47,100
well I mean we've come a long way now so

603
00:21:50,930 --> 00:21:49,320
a lot more has come out since then so

604
00:21:54,529 --> 00:21:50,940
you know if I was writing a news story

605
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:54,539
now which I still hope to do

606
00:21:58,850 --> 00:21:57,360
um it would cover more con more you know

607
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,860
more recent developments it would

608
00:22:01,789 --> 00:22:00,480
probably Focus I mean you know I don't

609
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:01,799
want to divulge too much but it would

610
00:22:04,730 --> 00:22:02,880
focus on

611
00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:04,740
some of the legislation that's happened

612
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,080
and maybe uh people who were coming

613
00:22:13,130 --> 00:22:09,840
forward and speaking to Congress uh

614
00:22:14,870 --> 00:22:13,140
speaking to Arrow the new DOD office

615
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:14,880
so you know I always want to move the

616
00:22:19,789 --> 00:22:17,880
ball forward so it just depends on where

617
00:22:22,730 --> 00:22:19,799
we're at and what

618
00:22:26,270 --> 00:22:22,740
what kind of a story Ralph and I can get

619
00:22:27,770 --> 00:22:26,280
I mean it's very very difficult to get a

620
00:22:30,049 --> 00:22:27,780
story that will satisfy the New York

621
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,059
Times editors I would like to be writing

622
00:22:33,890 --> 00:22:31,919
for them you know every other month if I

623
00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:33,900
could I think there's enough to cover

624
00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:37,020
but this is not a topic that they want

625
00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:38,760
to be covered in that way and if it's

626
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:40,440
something that they can put their own

627
00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:42,480
staff on they will because I'm not a

628
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:43,980
staff I want you know I have to really

629
00:22:48,529 --> 00:22:45,720
be clear that people understand I'm not

630
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:48,539
on the staff of the New York Times

631
00:22:52,789 --> 00:22:50,880
can you explain the difference yeah so

632
00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:52,799
somebody like Julian Barnes who has

633
00:22:59,210 --> 00:22:55,520
written more you know skeptical articles

634
00:23:01,549 --> 00:22:59,220
uh is is a full-time employee of the New

635
00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:01,559
York Times and he writes about a lot of

636
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,000
stuff and he's in the office working

637
00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:05,520
with the New York Times every day he's

638
00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:07,320
there a national security correspondent

639
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:09,480
and so he'll he'll be assigned a whole

640
00:23:13,610 --> 00:23:11,760
lot of Stories on a regular basis

641
00:23:16,190 --> 00:23:13,620
but the difference is that I'm a

642
00:23:18,409 --> 00:23:16,200
freelancer and so is Ralph which means

643
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:18,419
that we're not working for the paper we

644
00:23:24,529 --> 00:23:20,880
every story we do we pitch independently

645
00:23:25,549 --> 00:23:24,539
we ask them can we are you interested in

646
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:25,559
this

647
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,000
somebody like Julian barn or someone

648
00:23:34,730 --> 00:23:32,400
who's on staff is actually assigned

649
00:23:36,649 --> 00:23:34,740
stories so we're like we have to go to

650
00:23:38,450 --> 00:23:36,659
them with our pitch like we talked

651
00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:38,460
earlier about how we had to pitch the

652
00:23:42,350 --> 00:23:40,500
2017 story to them

653
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,360
we're not assigned it we have to

654
00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:44,640
interest them we have to say we even

655
00:23:48,350 --> 00:23:46,740
though we're not your employee right

656
00:23:50,510 --> 00:23:48,360
because they prefer to use their own

657
00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:50,520
staff for stories even though we're not

658
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:53,100
on your staff we have something we think

659
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:55,200
that's good enough that you you should

660
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:56,640
be interested in it and maybe you are

661
00:24:01,430 --> 00:23:59,460
and in fact we have an exclusive that

662
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:01,440
your reporters are not going to get

663
00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:03,000
access to I imagine that's a major

664
00:24:07,730 --> 00:24:05,100
selling point you're absolutely right it

665
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:07,740
is and I always tell people who are

666
00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:10,500
working with me to try to develop

667
00:24:16,730 --> 00:24:13,799
stories sources and so on that that's

668
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:16,740
the reason why I have to ask people to

669
00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:19,020
be very quiet if they're working with me

670
00:24:22,909 --> 00:24:21,600
on a story because if it's not exclusive

671
00:24:24,590 --> 00:24:22,919
if it gets out all over the Internet or

672
00:24:26,570 --> 00:24:24,600
if other media pick it up

673
00:24:29,149 --> 00:24:26,580
first the New York Times isn't going to

674
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:29,159
run with it it's just you know it's not

675
00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:30,960
like I want to prevent other people from

676
00:24:35,570 --> 00:24:32,760
getting access to this information but

677
00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:35,580
if I don't if we don't have an exclusive

678
00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:37,260
for the times the chances that we'll be

679
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:39,000
able to publish it are greatly

680
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:40,140
diminished

681
00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:42,480
so it's more about once the story comes

682
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:44,340
out in the times that everybody run with

683
00:24:48,890 --> 00:24:47,220
it do whatever you want but we so you

684
00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:48,900
know people that I sources that I'm

685
00:24:51,890 --> 00:24:50,460
working with to develop stories usually

686
00:24:53,930 --> 00:24:51,900
understand that and they're very good

687
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:53,940
about they understand that they want

688
00:24:57,649 --> 00:24:55,200
this to come out in the times because

689
00:25:00,649 --> 00:24:57,659
the times make such a huge impact so

690
00:25:02,810 --> 00:25:00,659
it's worth it but it is an important

691
00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:02,820
selling point the exclusivity factor and

692
00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:04,260
that's why you know the fact that Ralph

693
00:25:08,930 --> 00:25:06,900
and I are out there and we know a lot of

694
00:25:09,890 --> 00:25:08,940
sources I'm monitoring this thing every

695
00:25:11,690 --> 00:25:09,900
day

696
00:25:13,730 --> 00:25:11,700
staff members of The New York Times

697
00:25:15,770 --> 00:25:13,740
aren't doing that so I am definitely

698
00:25:18,529 --> 00:25:15,780
going to come across stories and

699
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:18,539
information that I only I would know

700
00:25:20,750 --> 00:25:19,919
about and their staff wouldn't know

701
00:25:24,590 --> 00:25:20,760
about

702
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:24,600
it that staff at the New York Times and

703
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:26,159
virtually any of the major media

704
00:25:30,409 --> 00:25:27,600
institutes why aren't they thinking

705
00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:30,419
about this topic more frequently

706
00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:35,220
you'd have to ask them Kurt I you know I

707
00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:37,140
I don't know I mean except that you know

708
00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:39,240
there's still a stigma and that stigma

709
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:43,020
is definitely still at play uh and the

710
00:25:47,210 --> 00:25:44,880
New York Times covers so many topics

711
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,220
they would consider to be way more

712
00:25:52,730 --> 00:25:49,440
important than this such as the war in

713
00:25:54,529 --> 00:25:52,740
Ukraine you know all kinds of things

714
00:25:56,330 --> 00:25:54,539
um they certainly have gone with the

715
00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:56,340
Chinese balloon story but that's not

716
00:25:59,149 --> 00:25:57,720
really the kind of story we're talking

717
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:59,159
about so

718
00:26:04,490 --> 00:26:01,440
I I really can't answer that and it's

719
00:26:06,409 --> 00:26:04,500
especially mystifying to me because the

720
00:26:09,470 --> 00:26:06,419
stories that we've done so far have

721
00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:09,480
gotten huge attention for the New York

722
00:26:12,590 --> 00:26:10,500
Times

723
00:26:15,710 --> 00:26:12,600
uh you know a huge number of people

724
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:15,720
viewing them the readers obviously loved

725
00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:17,760
the stories and want more

726
00:26:22,669 --> 00:26:20,760
but I can't speak for them I just know

727
00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:22,679
that it they don't cover it on a regular

728
00:26:26,570 --> 00:26:25,140
basis they will cover things like a

729
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:26,580
hearing that takes place in Washington

730
00:26:31,070 --> 00:26:29,039
or when the report comes out you know

731
00:26:33,230 --> 00:26:31,080
the odni report they have one of their

732
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:33,240
people cover that

733
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:35,520
um so

734
00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:38,220
yeah you I don't know uh people would

735
00:26:42,649 --> 00:26:40,020
have to ask them people will have to

736
00:26:44,330 --> 00:26:42,659
write to the editorial Department write

737
00:26:45,649 --> 00:26:44,340
to them and say we want to see more

738
00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:45,659
coverage of this

739
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:48,059
but I can't I can't speak for them but I

740
00:26:51,769 --> 00:26:49,679
do know that that stigma is pretty

741
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:51,779
powerful at the New York Times maybe

742
00:26:55,490 --> 00:26:53,760
more so there than a lot of other media

743
00:26:57,950 --> 00:26:55,500
because they are considered the paper of

744
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:57,960
record and they're very cautious

745
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,760
and the Chinese balloon story you're

746
00:27:03,169 --> 00:27:01,679
referring to what happened in Yukon yeah

747
00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:03,179
I'm referring to everything starting

748
00:27:07,010 --> 00:27:04,500
with the shooting down of the Chinese

749
00:27:09,409 --> 00:27:07,020
balloon going forward from that I mean

750
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:09,419
that's been such a huge thing in the

751
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,880
media in the times has been doing a lot

752
00:27:15,169 --> 00:27:13,440
of coverage on that and Helene Cooper

753
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:15,179
has been part of that can you walk us

754
00:27:19,010 --> 00:27:17,279
through that storyline and the North

755
00:27:21,230 --> 00:27:19,020
American issues that have popped up as

756
00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:21,240
of a couple weeks ago I wish I you know

757
00:27:25,490 --> 00:27:23,220
I've been so busy in the last few days

758
00:27:28,130 --> 00:27:25,500
with other stuff I wish I I don't feel

759
00:27:29,930 --> 00:27:28,140
like I'm as informed about this as I

760
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:29,940
would like to be but you know as we all

761
00:27:33,289 --> 00:27:31,440
know there were there was first the

762
00:27:35,810 --> 00:27:33,299
Chinese balloon that was shot down

763
00:27:37,490 --> 00:27:35,820
which was clearly a spy balloon and that

764
00:27:39,769 --> 00:27:37,500
was made very clear shot down over the

765
00:27:42,649 --> 00:27:39,779
Atlantic Ocean and then over this past

766
00:27:45,529 --> 00:27:42,659
weekend we had three more objects shot

767
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:45,539
down right we had one in Alaska on

768
00:27:49,850 --> 00:27:47,640
February 2nd which they said it was

769
00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:49,860
about the size of a small car

770
00:27:54,649 --> 00:27:53,100
another one in Yukon in Canada and

771
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:54,659
February 3rd and then another one over

772
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,600
Lake Huron on I believe February 4th I

773
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:59,279
think those were the dates and

774
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:01,200
you know they're they're just these

775
00:28:06,649 --> 00:28:04,080
small objects and uh we don't there has

776
00:28:08,390 --> 00:28:06,659
been no definitive I mean not enough of

777
00:28:11,630 --> 00:28:08,400
a definitive statement let's put it that

778
00:28:13,130 --> 00:28:11,640
way about what they actually were or are

779
00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:13,140
and they're having trouble collecting

780
00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:16,500
the debris but um so there's a there's a

781
00:28:21,409 --> 00:28:19,140
kind of chaos around all of this and and

782
00:28:23,890 --> 00:28:21,419
it's become this sort of

783
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:23,900
you know it's been kind of

784
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:25,679
heightened and and there's this

785
00:28:30,890 --> 00:28:27,360
escalation that's been going on after

786
00:28:33,230 --> 00:28:30,900
every day around this topic and

787
00:28:35,930 --> 00:28:33,240
I just think I mean it's clear to me

788
00:28:37,730 --> 00:28:35,940
that these are not alien objects and

789
00:28:39,890 --> 00:28:37,740
that's been stated

790
00:28:41,690 --> 00:28:39,900
um even though that some people say the

791
00:28:44,110 --> 00:28:41,700
door is still open but clearly they're

792
00:28:46,010 --> 00:28:44,120
not they're most likely Chinese

793
00:28:48,409 --> 00:28:46,020
uh and

794
00:28:51,230 --> 00:28:48,419
you know it's it's a little confusing as

795
00:28:53,690 --> 00:28:51,240
to why that has not been stated more

796
00:28:55,970 --> 00:28:53,700
clearly I don't know if people if

797
00:28:57,529 --> 00:28:55,980
there's just um people aren't talking to

798
00:29:00,110 --> 00:28:57,539
each other there's not an organized

799
00:29:01,789 --> 00:29:00,120
messaging that's going on around it they

800
00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:01,799
haven't found the debris from the

801
00:29:05,390 --> 00:29:03,480
objects so they don't maybe don't feel

802
00:29:07,130 --> 00:29:05,400
comfortable saying definitively what

803
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:07,140
they are although I suspect they do know

804
00:29:13,549 --> 00:29:09,840
what they are so I don't know it's um

805
00:29:15,950 --> 00:29:13,559
you know the objects are clearly not

806
00:29:18,110 --> 00:29:15,960
E.T though why do you say they're

807
00:29:21,649 --> 00:29:18,120
clearly not the statement has been made

808
00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:21,659
by the press secretary for Biden who

809
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:23,340
said that they have no indication that

810
00:29:26,269 --> 00:29:24,840
they're extraterrestrial their Air Force

811
00:29:29,149 --> 00:29:26,279
officials that have said the same thing

812
00:29:31,070 --> 00:29:29,159
and they don't behave in any

813
00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:31,080
that they don't demonstrate the kind of

814
00:29:36,289 --> 00:29:32,940
behaviors that we're used to when

815
00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:36,299
something is extraterrestrial uh I don't

816
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:38,520
so I just and I have sources that have

817
00:29:42,590 --> 00:29:40,559
told me uh also from the intelligence

818
00:29:44,990 --> 00:29:42,600
community that they're not that they're

819
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:45,000
Chinese basically

820
00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:46,919
um and I think the the bigger issue here

821
00:29:52,010 --> 00:29:49,620
has to do with the geopolitical Dynamics

822
00:29:54,350 --> 00:29:52,020
uh between China and the United States

823
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:54,360
and there's there's a lot going on

824
00:29:57,769 --> 00:29:56,640
I think behind the scenes around all of

825
00:29:59,690 --> 00:29:57,779
this that

826
00:30:01,610 --> 00:29:59,700
we're not privy to and hopefully over

827
00:30:03,169 --> 00:30:01,620
time more will come out they don't want

828
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,179
to State publicly this is Chinese

829
00:30:07,490 --> 00:30:05,279
because it would cause more of a

830
00:30:09,169 --> 00:30:07,500
conflict than they would like I I you

831
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:09,179
know I don't know if they're just not

832
00:30:12,889 --> 00:30:11,220
100 certain or if they're yeah there may

833
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:12,899
be reasons why they don't want to say it

834
00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:15,840
or they want to use this these UFOs as

835
00:30:18,409 --> 00:30:17,220
kind of a cover so they're sort of

836
00:30:21,529 --> 00:30:18,419
hedging it

837
00:30:23,690 --> 00:30:21,539
or they're just not clear and maybe some

838
00:30:25,610 --> 00:30:23,700
of the Congress people feel they've been

839
00:30:27,049 --> 00:30:25,620
left out they want to know more and then

840
00:30:31,310 --> 00:30:27,059
one person says this and somebody else

841
00:30:32,450 --> 00:30:31,320
says that and it's just messy uh but I

842
00:30:34,730 --> 00:30:32,460
think there's you know there's more that

843
00:30:37,610 --> 00:30:34,740
we I'm sure will come out over time but

844
00:30:39,769 --> 00:30:37,620
I just um I feel clear that these are

845
00:30:41,630 --> 00:30:39,779
not we don't have to speculate that

846
00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:41,640
these are some kind of non-human

847
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:44,100
technology or something I don't I really

848
00:30:47,210 --> 00:30:45,600
don't think that's the case

849
00:30:48,529 --> 00:30:47,220
I'm going to read a comment from Ross

850
00:30:49,970 --> 00:30:48,539
coltheart and I'll put it on the screen

851
00:30:51,649 --> 00:30:49,980
because it's fairly wordy I asked them

852
00:30:53,389 --> 00:30:51,659
for a question and he gave me a comment

853
00:30:55,130 --> 00:30:53,399
that's all okay cool you can just

854
00:30:58,130 --> 00:30:55,140
comment on his comment just so people

855
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,140
know he has been really focused on this

856
00:31:03,230 --> 00:31:00,960
and he's brilliant and he's he you know

857
00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:03,240
he's really really uh been monitoring

858
00:31:07,070 --> 00:31:04,860
everything and thinking a lot about it

859
00:31:10,250 --> 00:31:07,080
more than I have so let his comment

860
00:31:12,289 --> 00:31:10,260
carry the day sure there is clearly

861
00:31:14,450 --> 00:31:12,299
dissent between sections of the Pentagon

862
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:14,460
notably the U.S Air Force and the White

863
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,260
House when National Security adviser

864
00:31:20,330 --> 00:31:18,720
Jake Kirby saw that the dod had publicly

865
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:20,340
briefed journalists these objects were

866
00:31:24,110 --> 00:31:22,320
likely balloons he clearly knew enough

867
00:31:26,330 --> 00:31:24,120
to directly overrule that assumption

868
00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:26,340
they are not balloons you do not fire

869
00:31:30,169 --> 00:31:28,380
Sidewinder missiles at balloons and

870
00:31:32,570 --> 00:31:30,179
balloons not have the structure clearly

871
00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:32,580
described by the pilots someone tried to

872
00:31:36,289 --> 00:31:34,260
lie to the public and for the first time

873
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,299
in decades the White House has overruled

874
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,640
that lie fascinating right and though

875
00:31:43,250 --> 00:31:41,039
and and all I I mean I agree with Ross

876
00:31:46,010 --> 00:31:43,260
and also the White House has said that

877
00:31:48,289 --> 00:31:46,020
they want to set up their own h agency

878
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:48,299
to look into this which was kind of a

879
00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:51,600
shock too because we have the the arrow

880
00:31:56,210 --> 00:31:53,700
the Department of Defense entity doing

881
00:31:57,889 --> 00:31:56,220
its job and now suddenly the exact you

882
00:32:00,110 --> 00:31:57,899
know the president announces that he

883
00:32:01,490 --> 00:32:00,120
wants to set up another task force

884
00:32:04,130 --> 00:32:01,500
so

885
00:32:06,649 --> 00:32:04,140
um yeah it's all these contradictory

886
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:06,659
issues that are going on at once as Ross

887
00:32:11,870 --> 00:32:08,480
points out and hopefully it's gonna

888
00:32:13,250 --> 00:32:11,880
it'll smooth itself out over time did

889
00:32:15,289 --> 00:32:13,260
you receive a considerable amount of

890
00:32:19,010 --> 00:32:15,299
pushback or reproach from your article

891
00:32:21,529 --> 00:32:19,020
from the 2017-2019 one you mean by like

892
00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:21,539
Skeptics or wrong the editorial teams at

893
00:32:24,590 --> 00:32:22,860
the New York Times or from your

894
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,600
colleagues or from the broader Community

895
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:26,159
I'm curious to know where does the

896
00:32:28,669 --> 00:32:27,360
pushback come from and where does the

897
00:32:30,169 --> 00:32:28,679
adulation come from where does the

898
00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:30,179
praise come from

899
00:32:34,190 --> 00:32:31,500
yeah

900
00:32:37,730 --> 00:32:34,200
um I mean I think the story was just so

901
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:37,740
explosive that

902
00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:38,580
um

903
00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:40,020
you know I mean

904
00:32:45,230 --> 00:32:43,740
it changed everything you know so I

905
00:32:47,870 --> 00:32:45,240
don't know I'm sure there are people

906
00:32:50,210 --> 00:32:47,880
that have criticisms of it

907
00:32:50,930 --> 00:32:50,220
um and I know that you know

908
00:32:53,389 --> 00:32:50,940
um

909
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:53,399
we didn't reference the OSAP program

910
00:32:59,389 --> 00:32:56,399
which has upset some people

911
00:33:01,130 --> 00:32:59,399
um but I don't know it's hard hard for

912
00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:01,140
me to answer like where does criticism

913
00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:02,700
come from where does price come from I

914
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:04,860
mean it was just like this was sent off

915
00:33:10,730 --> 00:33:07,440
like a cannonball you know reverberated

916
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:10,740
around the world and I think the focus

917
00:33:15,710 --> 00:33:13,679
was just oh my god look these are real

918
00:33:19,370 --> 00:33:15,720
in the Pentagon studying them

919
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:19,380
uh and what's going to happen now I mean

920
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:22,740
we didn't we were not focused I mean I

921
00:33:26,990 --> 00:33:24,559
did not I don't remember getting people

922
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:27,000
critical at the time the time this thing

923
00:33:31,549 --> 00:33:30,000
came out and yeah I mean Harry Reid was

924
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:31,559
on the record and he didn't object to

925
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:33,360
anything in the story I mean it was all

926
00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:34,500
you know

927
00:33:38,930 --> 00:33:37,320
let's go moving it Forward here that was

928
00:33:40,909 --> 00:33:38,940
really the point of it

929
00:33:43,009 --> 00:33:40,919
and the fact that this was explosive to

930
00:33:45,169 --> 00:33:43,019
me indicates that the public is so

931
00:33:46,730 --> 00:33:45,179
desperate to hear about this topic I was

932
00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:46,740
speaking to Ryan Graves recently

933
00:33:49,610 --> 00:33:48,360
actually Ryan Graves has a podcast for

934
00:33:51,049 --> 00:33:49,620
people who don't know it's called merged

935
00:33:52,730 --> 00:33:51,059
and he interviewed me on the podcast

936
00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:52,740
which should come out in a few weeks and

937
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:53,940
I say that I don't think there's a

938
00:33:57,529 --> 00:33:55,679
stigma I think we have a collective

939
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:57,539
illusion of stigma and I go into this

940
00:34:00,769 --> 00:33:59,279
topic called Collective Illusions which

941
00:34:02,269 --> 00:34:00,779
means we behave one way in public

942
00:34:04,430 --> 00:34:02,279
because we believe other people behave

943
00:34:06,529 --> 00:34:04,440
that same way in the 1960s most

944
00:34:08,990 --> 00:34:06,539
Southerners were against segregation but

945
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:09,000
they thought that their neighbor was for

946
00:34:12,829 --> 00:34:11,280
it so they would say no I'm for it and I

947
00:34:14,990 --> 00:34:12,839
believe that stigma is similar where we

948
00:34:16,609 --> 00:34:15,000
feel like other people stigmatize it so

949
00:34:18,589 --> 00:34:16,619
we don't talk about it much and that's

950
00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:18,599
why what you did is extremely important

951
00:34:21,889 --> 00:34:20,280
what Ryan Graves is extremely important

952
00:34:23,329 --> 00:34:21,899
legitimizing the issue by getting people

953
00:34:24,649 --> 00:34:23,339
to talk about it so I don't think we

954
00:34:26,329 --> 00:34:24,659
have a stigma problem I think we have a

955
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:26,339
power disc problem and the fact that

956
00:34:30,290 --> 00:34:28,320
your article was explosive indicates

957
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:30,300
that people want this topic there are

958
00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:31,679
people that I interview math professors

959
00:34:34,669 --> 00:34:33,240
physics professors that you would think

960
00:34:36,409 --> 00:34:34,679
they're the skeptical type they come to

961
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:36,419
me afterward and say Kurt why aren't

962
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:37,440
more people talking about this top

963
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:38,879
subject I'm like why don't you bring

964
00:34:43,310 --> 00:34:41,040
that up on the podcast like show that

965
00:34:46,070 --> 00:34:43,320
you're interested in it yeah I mean

966
00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:46,080
that's basically what I mean by a stigma

967
00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:48,060
I mean I think your Point's valid yeah

968
00:34:51,530 --> 00:34:49,919
people are afraid to say what they

969
00:34:53,389 --> 00:34:51,540
really feel because they think other

970
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,399
people won't accept it

971
00:34:57,290 --> 00:34:55,440
but that's really because of us that's

972
00:34:58,430 --> 00:34:57,300
that's the that's really how a stigma

973
00:35:00,170 --> 00:34:58,440
operates

974
00:35:01,970 --> 00:35:00,180
I mean why are they afraid to say it

975
00:35:03,710 --> 00:35:01,980
because there's this taboo because they

976
00:35:06,530 --> 00:35:03,720
are afraid they'll be ridiculed or not

977
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:06,540
respected and so it's all I mean I think

978
00:35:09,650 --> 00:35:08,400
it's just you're basically saying you

979
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:09,660
know we're basically saying the same

980
00:35:14,690 --> 00:35:11,040
thing it just depends on how people

981
00:35:16,790 --> 00:35:14,700
operate in the face of that stigma but I

982
00:35:18,410 --> 00:35:16,800
I mean I just you know there is still

983
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,420
this hesitation however you want to

984
00:35:22,670 --> 00:35:20,640
describe it to be public about it and

985
00:35:25,490 --> 00:35:22,680
but it's changing rapidly

986
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:25,500
it's changing rapidly I think

987
00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:27,599
um more and more people are are not

988
00:35:31,490 --> 00:35:30,540
afraid of it now yeah great great so

989
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:31,500
what's some of the most compelling

990
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:33,119
evidence that you've seen on this which

991
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:34,740
we referred to earlier which is a

992
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:36,480
synonym for the phenomenon that it's not

993
00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:38,160
something terrestrial it's something

994
00:35:41,329 --> 00:35:40,140
that's extraordinary in a sense or if it

995
00:35:42,589 --> 00:35:41,339
is terrestrial could be a breakaway

996
00:35:44,450 --> 00:35:42,599
civilization but I mean it's not

997
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:44,460
something ordinary

998
00:35:49,849 --> 00:35:46,640
yeah well I mean

999
00:35:51,890 --> 00:35:49,859
the huge question I mean the best I mean

1000
00:35:53,950 --> 00:35:51,900
I think what what's really compelling to

1001
00:35:56,930 --> 00:35:53,960
me is to look back into the 50s and 60s

1002
00:35:58,730 --> 00:35:56,940
back at a time when we you know it's

1003
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:58,740
really hard to imagine that the

1004
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,240
technology that we're observing could

1005
00:36:03,650 --> 00:36:02,640
have existed then I mean now many cases

1006
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:03,660
could be

1007
00:36:08,089 --> 00:36:05,760
American Technology or maybe even

1008
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:08,099
Russian or Chinese right but in those

1009
00:36:12,349 --> 00:36:10,320
early days it's it's just inconceivable

1010
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,359
that any country had the technology that

1011
00:36:17,630 --> 00:36:14,240
was observed and the objects being

1012
00:36:20,210 --> 00:36:17,640
observed then were this demonstrated the

1013
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:20,220
same behaviors that we see now

1014
00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:22,320
uh and our government was very very

1015
00:36:25,790 --> 00:36:23,820
concerned about it and it was the Cold

1016
00:36:27,530 --> 00:36:25,800
War so they made sure to to try to make

1017
00:36:29,329 --> 00:36:27,540
it go away and not let the public come

1018
00:36:30,950 --> 00:36:29,339
involved and you know that's when all

1019
00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:30,960
the the programs for ridicule and

1020
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:33,660
everything else became operative but

1021
00:36:38,569 --> 00:36:36,720
how could that have been Russian Chinese

1022
00:36:41,150 --> 00:36:38,579
or American Technology back in those

1023
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,160
early days I mean that is a very basic

1024
00:36:44,450 --> 00:36:42,960
question and then you can look back at

1025
00:36:47,450 --> 00:36:44,460
the government documents from the time

1026
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:47,460
and see what kinds of observations were

1027
00:36:50,930 --> 00:36:48,240
made

1028
00:36:52,849 --> 00:36:50,940
and um you know it has to do too with

1029
00:36:54,410 --> 00:36:52,859
the credibility of the people observing

1030
00:36:56,270 --> 00:36:54,420
these things as you know as general

1031
00:36:58,270 --> 00:36:56,280
Samford said in that famous speech in

1032
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:58,280
1952 after those

1033
00:37:01,690 --> 00:37:00,480
flyovers in Washington DC you know

1034
00:37:11,630 --> 00:37:01,700
credible

1035
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:11,640
and this has been going on for decades

1036
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:13,200
there are hundreds and hundreds of

1037
00:37:17,150 --> 00:37:14,400
reports

1038
00:37:19,010 --> 00:37:17,160
that are very hard to explain away

1039
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:19,020
um and so you know you put it all

1040
00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:22,800
together and you have this picture and I

1041
00:37:27,770 --> 00:37:25,020
think for me personally it's also about

1042
00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:27,780
people that I have talked to with

1043
00:37:33,890 --> 00:37:30,660
clearances many of them off the Record

1044
00:37:34,849 --> 00:37:33,900
for years who from whom I have learned a

1045
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:34,859
lot

1046
00:37:38,990 --> 00:37:36,720
um and have who have helped you know

1047
00:37:40,970 --> 00:37:39,000
validate for me a lot of things that you

1048
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,980
know are off the Record so I can't talk

1049
00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:42,480
about them but

1050
00:37:46,130 --> 00:37:44,760
uh

1051
00:37:48,109 --> 00:37:46,140
you know when you put it all together

1052
00:37:50,030 --> 00:37:48,119
it's like if you just spend years

1053
00:37:52,609 --> 00:37:50,040
digging into this

1054
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:52,619
if it wasn't if it was something

1055
00:37:57,050 --> 00:37:55,200
explainable right if you dig into

1056
00:37:59,630 --> 00:37:57,060
something for years and years then the

1057
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:59,640
more you discover the more you'll you'll

1058
00:38:03,290 --> 00:38:01,920
you'll get towards an explanation you

1059
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:03,300
know you'll start to get to the truth

1060
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:04,560
which would be well this could be

1061
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:06,480
explained this way or that way but it's

1062
00:38:09,290 --> 00:38:08,160
the opposite it's like the more you

1063
00:38:11,870 --> 00:38:09,300
study it

1064
00:38:14,450 --> 00:38:11,880
the more it becomes unexplainable and

1065
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:14,460
I'm talking about the only the very best

1066
00:38:20,290 --> 00:38:17,760
information you know military documents

1067
00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:20,300
military observers cases involving

1068
00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:23,880
multiple levels of evidence such as you

1069
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:25,980
know radar and photographs and multiple

1070
00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:28,800
witnesses that are military or Pilots or

1071
00:38:33,230 --> 00:38:31,140
police officers

1072
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:33,240
um just a wealth of data and you see the

1073
00:38:37,849 --> 00:38:37,200
behavior of these objects and I'm sure I

1074
00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:37,859
mean

1075
00:38:42,770 --> 00:38:40,140
you know of course most sightings that

1076
00:38:44,690 --> 00:38:42,780
people have can be explained so we're

1077
00:38:46,910 --> 00:38:44,700
you know once you narrow it down to the

1078
00:38:49,010 --> 00:38:46,920
to the ones that are really spectacular

1079
00:38:50,569 --> 00:38:49,020
for which there's enough evidence that

1080
00:38:53,630 --> 00:38:50,579
you can eliminate

1081
00:38:55,970 --> 00:38:53,640
at least any known explanation of

1082
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:55,980
according to it being man-made right or

1083
00:39:01,250 --> 00:38:57,599
at least as far as anybody would know at

1084
00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:01,260
that time if it's not super super secret

1085
00:39:05,210 --> 00:39:03,660
um you just you just see over and over

1086
00:39:07,069 --> 00:39:05,220
and over again these things happening

1087
00:39:09,829 --> 00:39:07,079
and eventually

1088
00:39:13,130 --> 00:39:09,839
you know there's plenty of evidence as

1089
00:39:14,270 --> 00:39:13,140
as is well documented and now that you

1090
00:39:17,089 --> 00:39:14,280
know we have our our government

1091
00:39:20,810 --> 00:39:17,099
acknowledging that now we have

1092
00:39:22,609 --> 00:39:20,820
uh U.S government involved in you know

1093
00:39:23,930 --> 00:39:22,619
in investigating something here so

1094
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:23,940
they're not wasting their time

1095
00:39:26,750 --> 00:39:25,200
investigating something that doesn't

1096
00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:26,760
exist or something that they feel they

1097
00:39:30,650 --> 00:39:28,380
can easily explain

1098
00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:30,660
so I mean we don't have the answers yet

1099
00:39:35,930 --> 00:39:33,900
but there are so many interesting cases

1100
00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:35,940
and so much history to this

1101
00:39:41,690 --> 00:39:38,040
um and it takes a long time to wrap wrap

1102
00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:41,700
your mind around all of that but um

1103
00:39:46,670 --> 00:39:44,520
it's it's hard to imagine that all these

1104
00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:46,680
cases that we know about that are on the

1105
00:39:50,990 --> 00:39:49,020
record could all be explained through

1106
00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:51,000
some conventional explanation when

1107
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:53,160
they've been studied as thoroughly as

1108
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:55,980
they have been by the best people with

1109
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:58,320
the ability to do that and then the

1110
00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:00,960
whole realm of classical oh sorry the

1111
00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:02,940
whole realm of classified information we

1112
00:40:08,750 --> 00:40:05,640
have to constantly remind ourselves

1113
00:40:11,450 --> 00:40:08,760
that I mean I think Lou Elizondo said I

1114
00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:11,460
forget the percentage he said maybe 10

1115
00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:12,960
of what

1116
00:40:18,349 --> 00:40:16,020
the public knows is out you know we only

1117
00:40:20,690 --> 00:40:18,359
may we might know maybe 10 of what is

1118
00:40:22,849 --> 00:40:20,700
known on the classified level about this

1119
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:22,859
phenomenon

1120
00:40:28,250 --> 00:40:25,200
so you we have to constantly remind

1121
00:40:30,050 --> 00:40:28,260
ourselves of that that there's so much

1122
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:30,060
more and if it was something easily

1123
00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:31,200
explainable

1124
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:34,260
I think we'd know by now I I think the

1125
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:35,760
Navy would have been happy to tell us

1126
00:40:41,390 --> 00:40:39,599
the gimbal video was an airplane if if

1127
00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:41,400
that's what they had figured out it was

1128
00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:43,020
and you know

1129
00:40:48,589 --> 00:40:45,180
they have enough expertise and enough

1130
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:48,599
experts to go to within their realm of

1131
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,880
within you know all the agencies that

1132
00:40:55,310 --> 00:40:52,560
they have access to

1133
00:40:57,410 --> 00:40:55,320
to get that video analyzed properly and

1134
00:40:59,569 --> 00:40:57,420
make a decision based on not only a

1135
00:41:01,849 --> 00:40:59,579
video itself but the the classified

1136
00:41:04,310 --> 00:41:01,859
information they have that goes along

1137
00:41:06,770 --> 00:41:04,320
with it that we don't even have

1138
00:41:08,450 --> 00:41:06,780
you know so if if that video is

1139
00:41:10,609 --> 00:41:08,460
explainable they'd be happy to tell us

1140
00:41:12,170 --> 00:41:10,619
that you mentioned that the way that it

1141
00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:12,180
ordinarily works when you investigate a

1142
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:14,460
topic so let's say physics or particle

1143
00:41:17,870 --> 00:41:16,079
physics there's a pruning of the

1144
00:41:19,910 --> 00:41:17,880
possibility tree down and down and down

1145
00:41:21,470 --> 00:41:19,920
to a singular solution generally but in

1146
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:21,480
this one it seems like more and more

1147
00:41:24,890 --> 00:41:23,280
questions open up can you walk us

1148
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:24,900
through your mental models what did you

1149
00:41:29,690 --> 00:41:26,400
think what did you learn and why did

1150
00:41:32,450 --> 00:41:29,700
that change and what did it change too

1151
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:32,460
I'll try it's a big question yeah I'll

1152
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,079
try

1153
00:41:39,230 --> 00:41:36,240
um I mean when I first started you know

1154
00:41:41,150 --> 00:41:39,240
I received this report from the some

1155
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:41,160
French officials I don't know I don't

1156
00:41:45,710 --> 00:41:42,900
know how if people have probably heard

1157
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:45,720
me talk about this before this French

1158
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:48,240
report called the cometa report and

1159
00:41:51,470 --> 00:41:49,680
basically these high-level French

1160
00:41:53,390 --> 00:41:51,480
officials that study this thing for a

1161
00:41:55,310 --> 00:41:53,400
number of years and they were Admirals

1162
00:41:57,410 --> 00:41:55,320
and Generals and police officers and

1163
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:57,420
engineers and people like that and they

1164
00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:58,800
had that they had written in this report

1165
00:42:03,650 --> 00:42:00,420
what they call the Extraterrestrial

1166
00:42:05,690 --> 00:42:03,660
hypothesis right they said they thought

1167
00:42:07,490 --> 00:42:05,700
these cases could best be explained

1168
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:07,500
through that hypothesis and it was only

1169
00:42:11,810 --> 00:42:09,839
an hypothesis it couldn't be proven

1170
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:11,820
but it was this sort of notion that

1171
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:13,920
we're being visited as I said earlier

1172
00:42:18,829 --> 00:42:16,560
being visited from somewhere else and so

1173
00:42:22,849 --> 00:42:18,839
I think for the whole first 10 years of

1174
00:42:25,730 --> 00:42:22,859
my or maybe more of my work on this I

1175
00:42:27,890 --> 00:42:25,740
kind of held in my mind that the ones

1176
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:27,900
that aren't explainable I agree with

1177
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:29,520
those those generals and Admirals

1178
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,200
they're most likely explainable through

1179
00:42:34,250 --> 00:42:33,119
the Extraterrestrial hypothesis and that

1180
00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:34,260
was sort of

1181
00:42:39,410 --> 00:42:36,780
the way I viewed it you know it was um

1182
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:39,420
and my next story was about Aviation

1183
00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:41,520
safety issues and about these objects

1184
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,740
flying around and impacting aircraft but

1185
00:42:46,970 --> 00:42:45,599
it was always about their physical

1186
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:46,980
objects that have come from somewhere

1187
00:42:53,390 --> 00:42:49,680
else it's fairly simple

1188
00:42:55,550 --> 00:42:53,400
um and then you know over time

1189
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:55,560
um I just learned more about the the

1190
00:43:00,970 --> 00:42:56,880
more the more what they call High

1191
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:00,980
strangeness aspects of this uh related

1192
00:43:05,690 --> 00:43:04,079
phenomenon or you know things that

1193
00:43:08,270 --> 00:43:05,700
affect people's minds it's all kind of

1194
00:43:11,150 --> 00:43:08,280
what I said before Kurt

1195
00:43:12,829 --> 00:43:11,160
um you know and Jacques valet is has

1196
00:43:15,710 --> 00:43:12,839
been writing about this for decades I

1197
00:43:17,450 --> 00:43:15,720
mean Jacques valet the famous UFO writer

1198
00:43:18,530 --> 00:43:17,460
and researcher and investigator and

1199
00:43:22,430 --> 00:43:18,540
scientist

1200
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,440
has always had a theory about UFOs that

1201
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:24,480
was much broader and all-encompassing

1202
00:43:29,390 --> 00:43:27,359
than the Extraterrestrial hypothesis and

1203
00:43:32,089 --> 00:43:29,400
a lot of people didn't like him for that

1204
00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:32,099
and now I think it's you know we we can

1205
00:43:37,930 --> 00:43:34,260
see that he was really ahead of his time

1206
00:43:40,490 --> 00:43:37,940
because now we we just more aware of the

1207
00:43:42,770 --> 00:43:40,500
multi-dimensional complicated aspects of

1208
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,780
the the way the phenomenon manifests

1209
00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:44,400
itself

1210
00:43:48,910 --> 00:43:46,740
um and I mean books like skinwalkers at

1211
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:48,920
the Pentagon for instance

1212
00:43:54,770 --> 00:43:53,040
which document some of the things that

1213
00:43:56,930 --> 00:43:54,780
happened related to the Skinwalker Ranch

1214
00:43:58,490 --> 00:43:56,940
in which you know one of the things

1215
00:44:01,569 --> 00:43:58,500
that's always stuck with me was the

1216
00:44:04,910 --> 00:44:01,579
description of this blue orb

1217
00:44:06,890 --> 00:44:04,920
that went into the body of a man who was

1218
00:44:08,690 --> 00:44:06,900
driving a car and his daughter was with

1219
00:44:11,390 --> 00:44:08,700
him and it actually penetrated his body

1220
00:44:12,530 --> 00:44:11,400
and then he became severely ill after

1221
00:44:20,270 --> 00:44:12,540
that

1222
00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:20,280
planet right it's something else and

1223
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:22,319
these these orbs are described by a lot

1224
00:44:26,690 --> 00:44:24,240
of people uh

1225
00:44:28,609 --> 00:44:26,700
and so the phenomenon just takes on this

1226
00:44:31,609 --> 00:44:28,619
broader umbrella

1227
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:31,619
uh over time and I did I wasn't so aware

1228
00:44:36,650 --> 00:44:35,040
of that in earlier in my career

1229
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:36,660
um and it's harder to write about

1230
00:44:39,470 --> 00:44:37,920
because

1231
00:44:41,089 --> 00:44:39,480
when I'm ready for the New York Times

1232
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:41,099
I'm not going to go into that kind of

1233
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:43,200
stuff because it all has to happen in

1234
00:44:46,970 --> 00:44:45,119
steps you know the members of Congress

1235
00:44:48,410 --> 00:44:46,980
are not really interested in that they

1236
00:44:50,690 --> 00:44:48,420
just want

1237
00:44:52,609 --> 00:44:50,700
to deal with the National Security

1238
00:44:54,890 --> 00:44:52,619
implications of these physical objects

1239
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:54,900
flying around our Navy ships you know

1240
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:57,720
but they did include in legislation

1241
00:45:01,550 --> 00:44:59,760
which was passed

1242
00:45:03,890 --> 00:45:01,560
you know they had the legislation this

1243
00:45:07,250 --> 00:45:03,900
year and some legislation last year

1244
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,260
uh that they wanted psychological and

1245
00:45:11,809 --> 00:45:09,839
medical effects on people to be studied

1246
00:45:13,609 --> 00:45:11,819
and reported to Congress

1247
00:45:15,650 --> 00:45:13,619
so there is an acknowledgment on their

1248
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:15,660
part that they're aware of the broader

1249
00:45:19,309 --> 00:45:17,760
some of the broader implications of this

1250
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:19,319
um and then how it how it can affect

1251
00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:21,119
people and if it was just

1252
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:22,920
yeah so I mean

1253
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,960
it's hard for me to describe it but I

1254
00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:27,119
just I have much more of a sense that

1255
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,400
it's really is difficult to explain what

1256
00:45:33,410 --> 00:45:31,440
this thing is and then it has so many

1257
00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:33,420
more components to it

1258
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:36,780
than I ever realized before and it's

1259
00:45:41,470 --> 00:45:38,400
connected to Consciousness and it's

1260
00:45:44,089 --> 00:45:41,480
connected to other dimensions and it's

1261
00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:44,099
uh manifests in all kinds of strange

1262
00:45:48,410 --> 00:45:46,260
ways and

1263
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:48,420
some of the phenomena at Skinwalker

1264
00:45:52,670 --> 00:45:49,920
Ranch you have to ask are those really

1265
00:45:54,650 --> 00:45:52,680
UAP or are they something else where's

1266
00:45:57,470 --> 00:45:54,660
the what is the borderline where where

1267
00:45:58,910 --> 00:45:57,480
it's not UAP anymore that's something I

1268
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,920
was thinking right when we say that

1269
00:46:02,030 --> 00:46:00,480
there's this phenomenon and then we keep

1270
00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:02,040
talking about how it's so varied what is

1271
00:46:05,930 --> 00:46:03,960
the relationship between them all aside

1272
00:46:07,309 --> 00:46:05,940
from it being anomalous which by the way

1273
00:46:08,690 --> 00:46:07,319
someone knocks on my door and I open and

1274
00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:08,700
no one's there that's anomalous we

1275
00:46:11,569 --> 00:46:09,780
wouldn't call that part of the

1276
00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:11,579
phenomenon unless there was also a blue

1277
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:13,140
light associated with it or some orbit

1278
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:14,880
and stuff right so what is it that

1279
00:46:18,589 --> 00:46:16,560
strings these together such that we can

1280
00:46:19,970 --> 00:46:18,599
even put the label to categorize them as

1281
00:46:22,490 --> 00:46:19,980
the phenomenon

1282
00:46:24,650 --> 00:46:22,500
that's such a good question it really is

1283
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:24,660
I mean I I think sometimes maybe it's

1284
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:25,920
not clear

1285
00:46:30,770 --> 00:46:28,560
but I mean it's I think as far as the

1286
00:46:33,230 --> 00:46:30,780
Pentagon is concerned I mean they have

1287
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:33,240
their their characteristics that relate

1288
00:46:36,650 --> 00:46:34,800
to the way they behave they have their

1289
00:46:39,170 --> 00:46:36,660
physical their data showing that the

1290
00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:39,180
presence of some object they're more

1291
00:46:42,589 --> 00:46:41,220
focused on the physicality of it and the

1292
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:42,599
National Security implications so

1293
00:46:46,970 --> 00:46:44,640
there's a whole universe that they can

1294
00:46:48,770 --> 00:46:46,980
sort of wrap around that you know and

1295
00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:48,780
not the rest of it doesn't really come

1296
00:46:52,250 --> 00:46:50,760
into play but for for other people who

1297
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:52,260
are more interested in this in a bigger

1298
00:46:55,490 --> 00:46:54,240
way

1299
00:46:58,490 --> 00:46:55,500
um that's where those questions come

1300
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:58,500
into play what where do you draw that

1301
00:47:04,370 --> 00:47:01,440
line I don't know you know when is it a

1302
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:04,380
UAP and when is it something else uh and

1303
00:47:09,170 --> 00:47:06,540
I think probably people have their own

1304
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:09,180
ways of seeing that uh in terms of how

1305
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:10,640
they personally

1306
00:47:16,490 --> 00:47:13,740
interpret what that term actually means

1307
00:47:18,890 --> 00:47:16,500
uh I think it's yeah I don't think we

1308
00:47:21,470 --> 00:47:18,900
have any set agreed upon

1309
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,480
you know definition of what

1310
00:47:26,210 --> 00:47:23,040
characterizes

1311
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,220
an unidentified area anomalous

1312
00:47:31,010 --> 00:47:28,800
phenomenon and what doesn't

1313
00:47:34,190 --> 00:47:31,020
I mean just that term unidentified

1314
00:47:36,170 --> 00:47:34,200
anomalous phenomenon yeah that's you

1315
00:47:39,290 --> 00:47:36,180
know it's so broad we don't even have

1316
00:47:40,849 --> 00:47:39,300
Ariel in there anymore you know yeah so

1317
00:47:42,109 --> 00:47:40,859
that it's partly because they wanted to

1318
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:42,119
be able to include the ones that go in

1319
00:47:47,870 --> 00:47:44,400
the water but it broadens it up to mean

1320
00:47:51,230 --> 00:47:47,880
who knows what right yeah

1321
00:47:53,690 --> 00:47:51,240
um so yeah it's just a fascinating a

1322
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:53,700
fascinating question to ponder and

1323
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,440
there's so many such a variety of

1324
00:47:59,390 --> 00:47:57,200
experiences that people have had

1325
00:48:00,650 --> 00:47:59,400
engaging with these things that you

1326
00:48:03,230 --> 00:48:00,660
don't know

1327
00:48:05,210 --> 00:48:03,240
even almost how to define it anymore

1328
00:48:06,589 --> 00:48:05,220
it's not like we're saying with physics

1329
00:48:08,270 --> 00:48:06,599
with you can just get down to one

1330
00:48:09,730 --> 00:48:08,280
equation right

1331
00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:09,740
it's like yeah

1332
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:11,700
opposite is happening with this it's

1333
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:13,680
like it just gets less that way over

1334
00:48:17,630 --> 00:48:15,359
time although there's more data being

1335
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:17,640
collected at the same time you know but

1336
00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:19,440
there's another dimension I think of the

1337
00:48:24,890 --> 00:48:22,079
phenomenon that's not you can't pin it

1338
00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:24,900
down it's just not something that it's

1339
00:48:30,349 --> 00:48:27,060
almost like science isn't the right tool

1340
00:48:32,990 --> 00:48:30,359
sometimes to even try and and capture

1341
00:48:34,970 --> 00:48:33,000
this it's beyond our capability at some

1342
00:48:37,010 --> 00:48:34,980
level what is the connection between

1343
00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:37,020
uaps and Consciousness you mentioned

1344
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:39,119
this

1345
00:48:43,309 --> 00:48:41,760
yeah I wish I and you know again what's

1346
00:48:45,050 --> 00:48:43,319
meant by that then

1347
00:48:47,470 --> 00:48:45,060
I mean I yeah that's maybe a better

1348
00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:47,480
question it's but you know

1349
00:48:52,089 --> 00:48:50,400
does human consciousness in some way

1350
00:48:54,829 --> 00:48:52,099
determine

1351
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:54,839
not just the presence of the UFO but

1352
00:48:59,930 --> 00:48:57,359
does it play a role in what how a person

1353
00:49:01,970 --> 00:48:59,940
perceives it or how a person what kind

1354
00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:01,980
of experience a person might have in

1355
00:49:07,130 --> 00:49:05,280
connection to that phenomenon I mean for

1356
00:49:10,010 --> 00:49:07,140
instance there will be witnesses to the

1357
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,020
same phenomenon but their experience of

1358
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:12,000
it is each person perceives it in a

1359
00:49:14,930 --> 00:49:13,920
different way they'll describe it

1360
00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:14,940
differently they'll have a different

1361
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:16,680
kind of experience

1362
00:49:20,510 --> 00:49:18,960
what is that about is that because of

1363
00:49:22,190 --> 00:49:20,520
the consciousness of the of the human

1364
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:22,200
being that's in the presence of this

1365
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:23,760
thing even though the thing itself was

1366
00:49:29,050 --> 00:49:25,680
just something out there

1367
00:49:32,089 --> 00:49:29,060
you know it's it's like um

1368
00:49:36,589 --> 00:49:32,099
and also sometimes people have an

1369
00:49:39,170 --> 00:49:36,599
encounter and then they develop these uh

1370
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,180
abilities you know look not just

1371
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:41,280
Clairvoyance or telepathy they develop

1372
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:44,160
kind of more psychic powers or however

1373
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:47,040
you want to describe it after that as if

1374
00:49:50,990 --> 00:49:49,440
they have their Consciousness has been

1375
00:49:53,089 --> 00:49:51,000
impacted in some level we don't

1376
00:49:56,750 --> 00:49:53,099
understand you know they're able to

1377
00:49:58,609 --> 00:49:56,760
perceive more uh on the on the on the

1378
00:49:59,470 --> 00:49:58,619
realm of the Paranormal than they were

1379
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:59,480
before

1380
00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:01,680
uh so

1381
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:03,660
and then there's questions about whether

1382
00:50:08,210 --> 00:50:05,760
it's connected to

1383
00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:08,220
the Outlook what people consider to be

1384
00:50:14,210 --> 00:50:12,480
uh the afterlife where we go when we die

1385
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:14,220
um people are studying that question a

1386
00:50:18,170 --> 00:50:15,839
lot it's it's

1387
00:50:20,089 --> 00:50:18,180
um it's mysterious and it has and then

1388
00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:20,099
the whole question of Time how we Define

1389
00:50:25,550 --> 00:50:21,780
time

1390
00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:25,560
comes into play I mean um there's a show

1391
00:50:28,849 --> 00:50:27,660
uh there's a series on Netflix called

1392
00:50:30,349 --> 00:50:28,859
Dark

1393
00:50:32,270 --> 00:50:30,359
I don't know if you ever see if you've

1394
00:50:34,849 --> 00:50:32,280
ever seen it it's a German series but

1395
00:50:37,130 --> 00:50:34,859
it's it's really profoundly deals with

1396
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:37,140
the question of time travel and it has a

1397
00:50:41,390 --> 00:50:39,839
lot of messaging in that show that I

1398
00:50:43,790 --> 00:50:41,400
think relates to

1399
00:50:45,710 --> 00:50:43,800
how we perceive this phenomenon and What

1400
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:45,720
the deeper level of it is

1401
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:48,420
and so you know you can just keep going

1402
00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:50,160
peeling back the layers and peeling back

1403
00:50:55,849 --> 00:50:52,680
the layers and um you go to places with

1404
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:55,859
this that just expand your mind and you

1405
00:51:00,290 --> 00:50:58,559
can't contain them in a certain way take

1406
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:00,300
us through your journey into the studies

1407
00:51:06,049 --> 00:51:03,119
of the afterlife then please

1408
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:06,059
yeah well that's um something I could

1409
00:51:10,010 --> 00:51:08,160
spend three hours talking about but I'll

1410
00:51:12,410 --> 00:51:10,020
try not the time I have the time Leslie

1411
00:51:15,049 --> 00:51:12,420
oh yeah the door is opened I would not

1412
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:15,059
put you through that

1413
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:16,079
um

1414
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,200
so after I you know my my UFO book came

1415
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:21,839
out and then um I did a series based on

1416
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:24,420
my book I did a special TV special for

1417
00:51:28,970 --> 00:51:26,160
History Channel in 2011 based on the

1418
00:51:30,530 --> 00:51:28,980
book and after that I kind of felt like

1419
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:30,540
I'm kind of ready to explore something

1420
00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:32,880
else for a while and

1421
00:51:37,549 --> 00:51:34,559
I've always been interested in this

1422
00:51:39,650 --> 00:51:37,559
question of survival past death uh and

1423
00:51:41,390 --> 00:51:39,660
so it just naturally evolved my

1424
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:41,400
publisher came back to me and said do

1425
00:51:44,030 --> 00:51:42,480
you want to write about something else

1426
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:44,040
right at the moment where I was thinking

1427
00:51:47,890 --> 00:51:46,319
about I wanted to write about that and

1428
00:51:51,290 --> 00:51:47,900
so it was just this

1429
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:51,300
synchronicity really and I I jumped into

1430
00:51:56,750 --> 00:51:54,480
that book with some awareness of what I

1431
00:51:58,609 --> 00:51:56,760
was going to write about but it was

1432
00:52:01,490 --> 00:51:58,619
really a journey for me in the way that

1433
00:52:02,990 --> 00:52:01,500
the UFO book wasn't because it it there

1434
00:52:05,329 --> 00:52:03,000
I didn't know where that book was going

1435
00:52:08,089 --> 00:52:05,339
to go I I knew the topics of research

1436
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:08,099
that I wanted to cover but I learned a

1437
00:52:13,309 --> 00:52:11,520
lot as I went along and I also lost my

1438
00:52:15,770 --> 00:52:13,319
younger brother during the process of

1439
00:52:18,410 --> 00:52:15,780
writing the book and so it became a more

1440
00:52:20,270 --> 00:52:18,420
personal Journey for me because I was I

1441
00:52:22,910 --> 00:52:20,280
I for instance one of the things I

1442
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:22,920
covered in the book was mediumship

1443
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:24,480
which is

1444
00:52:27,290 --> 00:52:25,920
um and you know most people think it's

1445
00:52:29,630 --> 00:52:27,300
completely bogus you're just talking

1446
00:52:31,130 --> 00:52:29,640
about people in you know have a sign in

1447
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:31,140
their window saying they can come in and

1448
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:32,400
they have a crystal ball or something

1449
00:52:36,829 --> 00:52:33,599
like that it's not like that there's

1450
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:36,839
some very skilled individuals out there

1451
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:40,079
who can access information that appears

1452
00:52:44,990 --> 00:52:42,480
to be coming from a deceased person and

1453
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:45,000
so I had some profound experiences with

1454
00:52:49,609 --> 00:52:47,760
some mediums in which my brother and my

1455
00:52:53,170 --> 00:52:49,619
friend Bob Hopkins who I had actually

1456
00:52:55,849 --> 00:52:53,180
been with when he died in in 2011 both

1457
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,859
seem to be communicating to me through

1458
00:52:59,089 --> 00:52:57,599
this medium

1459
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:59,099
so

1460
00:53:02,270 --> 00:53:00,960
um how do you separate that from cold

1461
00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:02,280
reading is like the natural question

1462
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:03,660
that would come up yeah I mean my point

1463
00:53:07,609 --> 00:53:05,520
is it just became a personal Journey for

1464
00:53:08,690 --> 00:53:07,619
me intermingled with a lot of solid

1465
00:53:10,910 --> 00:53:08,700
research

1466
00:53:12,349 --> 00:53:10,920
um and a cold reading is very very

1467
00:53:15,470 --> 00:53:12,359
different because

1468
00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:15,480
that's usually when you're physically

1469
00:53:19,010 --> 00:53:17,460
with the person so in these in these

1470
00:53:20,390 --> 00:53:19,020
readings I had I was not one of them was

1471
00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:20,400
on the phone I couldn't even see it the

1472
00:53:23,210 --> 00:53:21,660
person couldn't even see me and the

1473
00:53:24,589 --> 00:53:23,220
second one was on Skype she didn't know

1474
00:53:26,809 --> 00:53:24,599
anything about me she just saw me

1475
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:26,819
sitting in a room with a blank wall but

1476
00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:28,800
a cold reading it's a way of

1477
00:53:33,530 --> 00:53:30,960
manipulation so like they'll get

1478
00:53:36,170 --> 00:53:33,540
information from somebody in the room

1479
00:53:37,549 --> 00:53:36,180
and then they'll come they'll assume

1480
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:37,559
certain things they'll come back with

1481
00:53:43,069 --> 00:53:40,740
other questions to kind of um trick

1482
00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:43,079
people into certain kinds of answers I

1483
00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:44,640
mean I wrote about it in my book I don't

1484
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:46,559
remember you know all the details it's

1485
00:53:51,049 --> 00:53:49,440
it's just a way of kind of creating a

1486
00:53:53,809 --> 00:53:51,059
phony perception

1487
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:53,819
that there is this this said dead person

1488
00:53:57,470 --> 00:53:55,440
there and the thing about a cold reading

1489
00:53:59,329 --> 00:53:57,480
is it's not it doesn't have the kind of

1490
00:54:01,309 --> 00:53:59,339
specific information

1491
00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:01,319
that I was talking about in the readings

1492
00:54:06,650 --> 00:54:03,180
that I had where

1493
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:06,660
just endless specific very very specific

1494
00:54:10,849 --> 00:54:08,880
information is delivered that this

1495
00:54:13,730 --> 00:54:10,859
medium couldn't possibly know that I'm

1496
00:54:16,010 --> 00:54:13,740
not revealing hints about in any way

1497
00:54:17,809 --> 00:54:16,020
and it's also the personality of the

1498
00:54:18,829 --> 00:54:17,819
cease person comes through you know none

1499
00:54:20,510 --> 00:54:18,839
of these things happen with a cold

1500
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:20,520
reading they're they're just much more

1501
00:54:25,010 --> 00:54:22,079
vague

1502
00:54:26,210 --> 00:54:25,020
um and it's just another order

1503
00:54:28,490 --> 00:54:26,220
you know

1504
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:28,500
of experience I mean there's no there's

1505
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,380
no comparison and that's just one

1506
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:33,119
media I mean you know you want to know

1507
00:54:37,970 --> 00:54:36,240
what the best evidence is for survival

1508
00:54:40,010 --> 00:54:37,980
after death and I I don't think it's

1509
00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:40,020
something we can prove

1510
00:54:45,410 --> 00:54:44,040
but there are so many areas to draw from

1511
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:45,420
um and you know I actually went through

1512
00:54:49,849 --> 00:54:47,040
and said you know one of them is young

1513
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:49,859
children who remember past lives very

1514
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:50,880
young children

1515
00:54:55,130 --> 00:54:52,640
and

1516
00:54:57,290 --> 00:54:55,140
investigators are able to verify their

1517
00:54:58,790 --> 00:54:57,300
Memories by locating the actual person

1518
00:55:00,530 --> 00:54:58,800
that they said they were because they

1519
00:55:02,210 --> 00:55:00,540
provide enough details to be able to do

1520
00:55:04,430 --> 00:55:02,220
that and this is you're talking two and

1521
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:04,440
three-year-olds who didn't you know have

1522
00:55:08,809 --> 00:55:06,000
never been exposed to anything related

1523
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:08,819
to that previous person with all kinds

1524
00:55:14,690 --> 00:55:11,819
of emotional reactivity and sometimes

1525
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:14,700
knowledge of of skills that that

1526
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:16,020
previous person had that a

1527
00:55:18,910 --> 00:55:17,280
three-year-old would never otherwise

1528
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:18,920
know you know a lot of things like this

1529
00:55:23,750 --> 00:55:21,359
very interesting and compelling cases

1530
00:55:26,030 --> 00:55:23,760
that were studied by researchers at the

1531
00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:26,040
University of Virginia for a long time

1532
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:27,780
and then you have these near-death

1533
00:55:31,730 --> 00:55:29,520
experiences which I think people know

1534
00:55:34,370 --> 00:55:31,740
about where you go into you know you

1535
00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:34,380
apparently uh don't have any

1536
00:55:38,750 --> 00:55:36,420
you're not you're basically clinically

1537
00:55:40,190 --> 00:55:38,760
dead when these things happen and you

1538
00:55:42,410 --> 00:55:40,200
leave your body and you go off into this

1539
00:55:44,089 --> 00:55:42,420
afterlife realm and you come back and

1540
00:55:45,650 --> 00:55:44,099
people's lives are forever to change

1541
00:55:47,569 --> 00:55:45,660
because of that um and there are certain

1542
00:55:49,370 --> 00:55:47,579
characteristics of those experiences

1543
00:55:51,650 --> 00:55:49,380
that are consistent

1544
00:55:53,569 --> 00:55:51,660
throughout the world and those have been

1545
00:55:54,829 --> 00:55:53,579
studied by many scientists medical

1546
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:54,839
doctors

1547
00:56:00,049 --> 00:55:58,079
um you know and I these are the people I

1548
00:56:01,790 --> 00:56:00,059
drew from in my book to really get to

1549
00:56:02,809 --> 00:56:01,800
the bottom of what those experiences are

1550
00:56:04,430 --> 00:56:02,819
about

1551
00:56:06,230 --> 00:56:04,440
and then there's things that happen to

1552
00:56:08,170 --> 00:56:06,240
people at the very end of life when

1553
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:08,180
they're dying that seem to be

1554
00:56:13,309 --> 00:56:10,740
Communications with the other side you

1555
00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:13,319
know there's investigators in UK that

1556
00:56:16,609 --> 00:56:15,119
have studied these cases and there's

1557
00:56:18,349 --> 00:56:16,619
then there's mediumship and there's both

1558
00:56:20,329 --> 00:56:18,359
mental and physical mediumship they're

1559
00:56:22,250 --> 00:56:20,339
two different things after death

1560
00:56:24,530 --> 00:56:22,260
Communications I'm sure a lot of people

1561
00:56:26,450 --> 00:56:24,540
have experienced that where you

1562
00:56:27,650 --> 00:56:26,460
you've lost someone you love and you're

1563
00:56:30,049 --> 00:56:27,660
probably grieving when these things

1564
00:56:31,970 --> 00:56:30,059
happen and you you you you sense you

1565
00:56:33,770 --> 00:56:31,980
have some kind of experience where you

1566
00:56:36,170 --> 00:56:33,780
feel that you are getting a

1567
00:56:37,970 --> 00:56:36,180
communication from that person you don't

1568
00:56:39,890 --> 00:56:37,980
need a medium for that you can get a

1569
00:56:40,970 --> 00:56:39,900
direct communication it can come in many

1570
00:56:44,329 --> 00:56:40,980
forms

1571
00:56:46,010 --> 00:56:44,339
and it's absolutely unprovable it's

1572
00:56:48,950 --> 00:56:46,020
totally subjective

1573
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:48,960
but um there's a sense of knowing when

1574
00:56:52,190 --> 00:56:50,400
something like that happens and it's

1575
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:52,200
very meaningful to the person receiving

1576
00:56:55,730 --> 00:56:53,760
it and I bet a lot of the listeners

1577
00:56:57,349 --> 00:56:55,740
right now have had those kinds of

1578
00:56:59,630 --> 00:56:57,359
experiences and most people don't talk

1579
00:57:01,370 --> 00:56:59,640
about them or they do just among their

1580
00:57:04,849 --> 00:57:01,380
family members or their close friends

1581
00:57:07,250 --> 00:57:04,859
but it's it's very I had a number of

1582
00:57:09,770 --> 00:57:07,260
these events happen to me when I lost my

1583
00:57:12,650 --> 00:57:09,780
brother and it's just very very in some

1584
00:57:14,270 --> 00:57:12,660
ways more compelling evidence for an

1585
00:57:16,670 --> 00:57:14,280
individual than any of the research

1586
00:57:18,349 --> 00:57:16,680
could ever be because it's it's your own

1587
00:57:20,329 --> 00:57:18,359
experience of something

1588
00:57:21,950 --> 00:57:20,339
so that's another and those have also

1589
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:21,960
been studied there have been statistical

1590
00:57:27,710 --> 00:57:24,480
studies on them and all kinds of studies

1591
00:57:30,589 --> 00:57:27,720
by psychologists people like that yeah

1592
00:57:32,329 --> 00:57:30,599
and then there's apparitions that are

1593
00:57:33,770 --> 00:57:32,339
actually interactive I'm not just

1594
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:33,780
talking about you see a ghost somewhere

1595
00:57:37,370 --> 00:57:35,460
but I'm talking about

1596
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:37,380
something that appears to be conscious

1597
00:57:45,049 --> 00:57:40,079
that doesn't have a body that's actually

1598
00:57:46,730 --> 00:57:45,059
responsive to uh a human the action of a

1599
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:46,740
human being like if you wave to it it

1600
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,680
waves back something like that which you

1601
00:57:53,630 --> 00:57:51,839
know seeing this ghostly forum and it it

1602
00:57:55,730 --> 00:57:53,640
responds to you and that suggests that

1603
00:57:57,890 --> 00:57:55,740
there's an actual Consciousness there

1604
00:58:00,049 --> 00:57:57,900
or and then you can pick up there's one

1605
00:58:02,150 --> 00:58:00,059
case in my book where you're able

1606
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:02,160
actually this this young boy was able to

1607
00:58:05,390 --> 00:58:04,079
actually pick up messages from that

1608
00:58:07,309 --> 00:58:05,400
entity which was in their house and

1609
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:07,319
everybody in the family was seeing it

1610
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:08,880
and the entity revealed enough

1611
00:58:13,250 --> 00:58:11,040
information about herself

1612
00:58:14,809 --> 00:58:13,260
that they were labeled able to confirm

1613
00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:14,819
that she was the person who had

1614
00:58:17,809 --> 00:58:16,380
previously lived in the house and nobody

1615
00:58:18,829 --> 00:58:17,819
knew anything about her when they moved

1616
00:58:20,750 --> 00:58:18,839
in

1617
00:58:22,910 --> 00:58:20,760
so you know that's a very strong case of

1618
00:58:24,890 --> 00:58:22,920
an apparition that's evidential it's not

1619
00:58:26,750 --> 00:58:24,900
just the same as somebody saying oh I

1620
00:58:28,970 --> 00:58:26,760
was in a haunted house and I saw a ghost

1621
00:58:31,130 --> 00:58:28,980
you know there's there's a really a high

1622
00:58:33,170 --> 00:58:31,140
level way you can study

1623
00:58:35,150 --> 00:58:33,180
best of the best when it comes to

1624
00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:35,160
evidence for these kinds of things and

1625
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:36,960
that's what I tried to bring together in

1626
00:58:40,609 --> 00:58:38,880
my book called surviving death a

1627
00:58:43,130 --> 00:58:40,619
journalist investigates evidence for an

1628
00:58:46,010 --> 00:58:43,140
afterlife which came out in 2017 and

1629
00:58:47,930 --> 00:58:46,020
there was a series on Netflix with the

1630
00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:47,940
same title it's actually there now it

1631
00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:49,200
came out in

1632
00:58:53,329 --> 00:58:51,480
2021 I think

1633
00:58:55,549 --> 00:58:53,339
um it's a six-part series on Netflix

1634
00:58:57,710 --> 00:58:55,559
called surviving death which also covers

1635
00:59:00,530 --> 00:58:57,720
a lot of this stuff and I think people

1636
00:59:02,210 --> 00:59:00,540
might enjoy seeing that so yeah so in my

1637
00:59:04,010 --> 00:59:02,220
book I tried to bring together the best

1638
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:04,020
evidence from all these different areas

1639
00:59:07,490 --> 00:59:06,000
and kind of consolidate them into one

1640
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:07,500
volume where you really only have to

1641
00:59:11,930 --> 00:59:09,359
look at this if you want to get a sense

1642
00:59:14,930 --> 00:59:11,940
of what's being done in all these very

1643
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:14,940
areas of research and also read direct

1644
00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:17,280
testimonies of people who have had

1645
00:59:22,430 --> 00:59:20,040
near-death experiences people have

1646
00:59:23,870 --> 00:59:22,440
studied meat studied mediums a lot of

1647
00:59:25,609 --> 00:59:23,880
people wrote their own chapters in my

1648
00:59:26,510 --> 00:59:25,619
book just like they did for my UFO book

1649
00:59:28,849 --> 00:59:26,520
so

1650
00:59:31,010 --> 00:59:28,859
anyway I just think there's a lot of

1651
00:59:34,309 --> 00:59:31,020
compelling evidence but it's not

1652
00:59:36,950 --> 00:59:34,319
provable because you know when you're

1653
00:59:38,329 --> 00:59:36,960
dead you're not unless you can die and

1654
00:59:39,950 --> 00:59:38,339
come back some way that you can actually

1655
00:59:42,890 --> 00:59:39,960
prove it which

1656
00:59:44,630 --> 00:59:42,900
we can't do but it's just suggestive and

1657
00:59:46,609 --> 00:59:44,640
it's fascinating to ponder and think

1658
00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:46,619
about I mean it depends on what your

1659
00:59:50,270 --> 00:59:48,420
personal definition is a proof right

1660
00:59:52,430 --> 00:59:50,280
some people feel that if they've just

1661
00:59:54,530 --> 00:59:52,440
had a certain kind of a dream of someone

1662
00:59:55,849 --> 00:59:54,540
or they've felt like they've had a

1663
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:55,859
communication from someone that's enough

1664
00:59:59,450 --> 00:59:57,359
for them

1665
01:00:02,569 --> 00:59:59,460
you know but in terms of scientific

1666
01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:02,579
level proof I don't we don't have that

1667
01:00:06,170 --> 01:00:04,740
when people encounter UFOs and they

1668
01:00:08,089 --> 01:00:06,180
develop some of these extraordinary

1669
01:00:10,190 --> 01:00:08,099
psychic abilities is that related to The

1670
01:00:13,069 --> 01:00:10,200
Hitchhiker effect

1671
01:00:14,930 --> 01:00:13,079
it could be I don't know it could be I

1672
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:14,940
don't think always though

1673
01:00:18,230 --> 01:00:16,559
and I don't know I don't know if people

1674
01:00:20,089 --> 01:00:18,240
who have had the hitchhiker effect have

1675
01:00:22,370 --> 01:00:20,099
developed these these other abilities

1676
01:00:24,289 --> 01:00:22,380
I'm I actually actually don't know

1677
01:00:27,530 --> 01:00:24,299
um maybe they have

1678
01:00:28,910 --> 01:00:27,540
but um it's not the hitchhiker effect is

1679
01:00:31,010 --> 01:00:28,920
not something I would ever want to have

1680
01:00:32,750 --> 01:00:31,020
happen to me I'll tell you that I

1681
01:00:35,990 --> 01:00:32,760
wouldn't go near that that wrench that

1682
01:00:38,270 --> 01:00:36,000
skin walker Ranch if I were anybody out

1683
01:00:39,770 --> 01:00:38,280
there so I don't know you'd have to I

1684
01:00:40,970 --> 01:00:39,780
mean I'm sure that that information is

1685
01:00:42,349 --> 01:00:40,980
probably out there

1686
01:00:44,569 --> 01:00:42,359
I don't know how they were affected by

1687
01:00:45,829 --> 01:00:44,579
that can you briefly outline Skinwalker

1688
01:00:47,450 --> 01:00:45,839
as it's been mentioned a couple times

1689
01:00:50,030 --> 01:00:47,460
and I know that several people may be

1690
01:00:51,530 --> 01:00:50,040
new to this whole phenomenon so briefly

1691
01:00:53,930 --> 01:00:51,540
if you can give an outliness to what

1692
01:00:56,990 --> 01:00:53,940
Skin Walkers yeah I mean it's it's a

1693
01:00:59,210 --> 01:00:57,000
large track of land in Utah that was

1694
01:01:02,569 --> 01:00:59,220
purchased by Robert Bigelow back in the

1695
01:01:04,250 --> 01:01:02,579
90s I believe and was studied by his

1696
01:01:06,530 --> 01:01:04,260
group which was called nids the National

1697
01:01:10,010 --> 01:01:06,540
Institute for Discovery Science and then

1698
01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:10,020
he eventually sold it and you and now

1699
01:01:13,789 --> 01:01:11,520
it's being studied by another team of

1700
01:01:16,270 --> 01:01:13,799
people but it was a location where where

1701
01:01:19,670 --> 01:01:16,280
a lot of paranormal stuff was going on

1702
01:01:22,789 --> 01:01:19,680
and so uh the studies that needs did did

1703
01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:22,799
you know extraordinarily you know

1704
01:01:28,849 --> 01:01:25,920
accurate and detailed documentation of

1705
01:01:30,890 --> 01:01:28,859
some of these events and uh the

1706
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:30,900
documents are with the DIA right now I

1707
01:01:34,370 --> 01:01:33,119
don't think a lot or with Robert Bigelow

1708
01:01:36,349 --> 01:01:34,380
they haven't come out but books have

1709
01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:36,359
been written about it by George Knapp

1710
01:01:41,630 --> 01:01:40,020
and column Kelleher who was involved and

1711
01:01:43,069 --> 01:01:41,640
Jim lakaski the three of them wrote the

1712
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:43,079
most recent book and basically there

1713
01:01:48,650 --> 01:01:46,079
were just a lot of very weird phenomena

1714
01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:48,660
that went on there uh such as animal

1715
01:01:53,390 --> 01:01:51,480
mutilations and beings that seem to come

1716
01:01:55,490 --> 01:01:53,400
through portals and you know that you

1717
01:01:58,250 --> 01:01:55,500
mentioned the hitchhiker effect where

1718
01:01:59,630 --> 01:01:58,260
people would um have encounters with

1719
01:02:01,130 --> 01:01:59,640
strange things when they were there and

1720
01:02:02,990 --> 01:02:01,140
then they'd go home and the thing would

1721
01:02:04,910 --> 01:02:03,000
seem to follow them home and they'd have

1722
01:02:07,490 --> 01:02:04,920
events happening in their home

1723
01:02:09,230 --> 01:02:07,500
that hadn't happened before which would

1724
01:02:09,950 --> 01:02:09,240
end up involving their whole family so

1725
01:02:14,450 --> 01:02:09,960
it's

1726
01:02:16,450 --> 01:02:14,460
but there was a whole range of other

1727
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:16,460
strange things

1728
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:18,000
that

1729
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:20,160
are more like Poltergeist kind of

1730
01:02:25,730 --> 01:02:22,880
effects or you know

1731
01:02:27,230 --> 01:02:25,740
weird portals and

1732
01:02:29,569 --> 01:02:27,240
I mean those are things I think of

1733
01:02:31,609 --> 01:02:29,579
animal mutilations you know a lot of

1734
01:02:34,430 --> 01:02:31,619
dark very unpleasant

1735
01:02:36,049 --> 01:02:34,440
things going on uh there were I think

1736
01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:36,059
it's come out that there was some

1737
01:02:39,650 --> 01:02:38,640
nuclear waste buried nearer there and

1738
01:02:42,230 --> 01:02:39,660
there are

1739
01:02:44,030 --> 01:02:42,240
you know things to do with the land

1740
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:44,040
around there that could be impacting

1741
01:02:48,470 --> 01:02:46,559
this but I think there's still there's

1742
01:02:51,170 --> 01:02:48,480
ongoing studies to try to figure out

1743
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:51,180
what's going on in that location do you

1744
01:02:54,470 --> 01:02:52,559
happen to know if some of these studies

1745
01:02:56,329 --> 01:02:54,480
are open to people who aren't a part of

1746
01:02:58,430 --> 01:02:56,339
nits or the big low Institute for

1747
01:03:00,170 --> 01:02:58,440
instance I'm thinking as a someone has a

1748
01:03:01,849 --> 01:03:00,180
background in math and physics like say

1749
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:01,859
to the people in the physics or the math

1750
01:03:06,170 --> 01:03:04,319
or the skeptic Community hey James Randy

1751
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:06,180
or Penn and Teller or Michael Sherman or

1752
01:03:10,309 --> 01:03:08,640
Neil degrasseiss hey come here here's an

1753
01:03:12,289 --> 01:03:10,319
open ticket in fact we'll pay for your

1754
01:03:14,450 --> 01:03:12,299
flight and your hotel the Hotel this the

1755
01:03:16,730 --> 01:03:14,460
skinwalker cops stay here bring whatever

1756
01:03:19,430 --> 01:03:16,740
equipment you like it's Fairly reliable

1757
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:19,440
in that something occurs once a week or

1758
01:03:23,210 --> 01:03:21,359
or three times per week or whatever the

1759
01:03:25,849 --> 01:03:23,220
frequency is it's repeatable in that

1760
01:03:27,829 --> 01:03:25,859
sense are you aware of any such

1761
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:27,839
invitations or studies that are

1762
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:29,280
conducted by people who don't own the

1763
01:03:34,609 --> 01:03:31,920
ranch or aren't associated with the rich

1764
01:03:37,069 --> 01:03:34,619
I I don't know because I am not

1765
01:03:38,510 --> 01:03:37,079
connected to it at all but I I can't

1766
01:03:39,829 --> 01:03:38,520
imagine I mean you know I don't know I

1767
01:03:40,970 --> 01:03:39,839
don't know how they work I would you

1768
01:03:42,650 --> 01:03:40,980
know you'd have to get in touch with the

1769
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,660
people who are now there and there it's

1770
01:03:46,490 --> 01:03:44,640
no longer in the hands of Robert Bigelow

1771
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:46,500
and his team so

1772
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:48,000
um and there were physicists that were

1773
01:03:50,930 --> 01:03:48,960
there but

1774
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:50,940
it's a great question I mean if if a

1775
01:03:54,829 --> 01:03:52,319
skeptic wanted to go there was his

1776
01:03:56,809 --> 01:03:54,839
equipment I I have no idea what they

1777
01:03:59,030 --> 01:03:56,819
would say I'm not yeah speak for them

1778
01:04:00,829 --> 01:03:59,040
and I believe the current owner is fugle

1779
01:04:04,030 --> 01:04:00,839
is that correct Brandon Brandon fugle

1780
01:04:06,890 --> 01:04:04,040
correct Brandon fugle yeah

1781
01:04:08,930 --> 01:04:06,900
out there yeah see if you can get on

1782
01:04:10,130 --> 01:04:08,940
that property but I I don't recommend it

1783
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:10,140
because then you might get some

1784
01:04:14,089 --> 01:04:12,240
weirdness following you home so you know

1785
01:04:15,710 --> 01:04:14,099
some people say they would rather be the

1786
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,720
informed sufferer than the ignorant Pig

1787
01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:17,280
I don't know about that I think that's

1788
01:04:20,690 --> 01:04:18,720
just a form of intellectual

1789
01:04:23,329 --> 01:04:20,700
grandstanding I think that people would

1790
01:04:24,890 --> 01:04:23,339
beg for the rewind button yeah I still

1791
01:04:26,990 --> 01:04:24,900
wouldn't want those creepy things coming

1792
01:04:28,549 --> 01:04:27,000
into my house but I understand that that

1793
01:04:30,770 --> 01:04:28,559
approach too

1794
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:30,780
continuing on this thread of studies

1795
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:32,640
that have been done on the afterlife

1796
01:04:37,730 --> 01:04:35,520
they're cataloged in your book correct

1797
01:04:39,410 --> 01:04:37,740
yeah I mean the book covers them and

1798
01:04:41,150 --> 01:04:39,420
their chapters written by some of the

1799
01:04:43,670 --> 01:04:41,160
investigators themselves there's great

1800
01:04:45,770 --> 01:04:43,680
stories about people who have had

1801
01:04:48,650 --> 01:04:45,780
amazing near-death experiences yeah it's

1802
01:04:50,210 --> 01:04:48,660
all there and there's a huge um

1803
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:50,220
um you know list of

1804
01:04:55,010 --> 01:04:52,319
um as an index in the back so it

1805
01:04:56,390 --> 01:04:55,020
references all kinds of papers and books

1806
01:04:57,770 --> 01:04:56,400
and places where people can go to get

1807
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:57,780
more information

1808
01:05:01,789 --> 01:05:00,240
and the most powerful kind of study is a

1809
01:05:03,049 --> 01:05:01,799
peer-reviewed study sorry that's not the

1810
01:05:04,970 --> 01:05:03,059
most powerful kind but that's something

1811
01:05:07,549 --> 01:05:04,980
that is given plenty of credence are

1812
01:05:09,530 --> 01:05:07,559
there peer-reviewed studies in that book

1813
01:05:10,910 --> 01:05:09,540
yes I mean some I think that the near

1814
01:05:13,069 --> 01:05:10,920
some of the near-death experiences

1815
01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:13,079
definitely there was one paper that was

1816
01:05:18,349 --> 01:05:15,839
published oh my God by pin Von lummel

1817
01:05:19,490 --> 01:05:18,359
and team and one of the major I wish I

1818
01:05:22,190 --> 01:05:19,500
could remember the name but one of the

1819
01:05:25,190 --> 01:05:22,200
major science journals I think it was

1820
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:25,200
science but one of the leading uh Lance

1821
01:05:28,670 --> 01:05:26,880
Lancet or something one of the leading

1822
01:05:31,250 --> 01:05:28,680
medical journals

1823
01:05:32,690 --> 01:05:31,260
um which was definitely peer-reviewed

1824
01:05:35,030 --> 01:05:32,700
and I I think there are a bunch of

1825
01:05:36,349 --> 01:05:35,040
peer-reviewed papers yeah

1826
01:05:38,870 --> 01:05:36,359
um

1827
01:05:40,130 --> 01:05:38,880
I do and then some of them are books but

1828
01:05:42,470 --> 01:05:40,140
I know there have been studies on

1829
01:05:44,270 --> 01:05:42,480
mediumship that have been peer reviewed

1830
01:05:46,490 --> 01:05:44,280
before they were published too and those

1831
01:05:49,309 --> 01:05:46,500
are referenced in my book as well so I'm

1832
01:05:51,170 --> 01:05:49,319
so happy speaking with you because when

1833
01:05:53,870 --> 01:05:51,180
I ask you a question about evidence or

1834
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:53,880
studies you don't even bat an eye you

1835
01:05:56,690 --> 01:05:55,200
don't take it as an offensive question

1836
01:05:59,210 --> 01:05:56,700
and there's some people who I've

1837
01:06:01,010 --> 01:05:59,220
interviewed more in the UFO scene that

1838
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,020
they see that as an attack on their

1839
01:06:05,690 --> 01:06:03,119
legitimacy and I understand because it's

1840
01:06:07,849 --> 01:06:05,700
such a contentious topic but it's

1841
01:06:10,430 --> 01:06:07,859
refreshing when someone says oh yeah and

1842
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:10,440
here it is or oh we can't prove and so

1843
01:06:14,329 --> 01:06:12,240
on so I appreciate that

1844
01:06:16,130 --> 01:06:14,339
well thanks I mean yeah I don't see why

1845
01:06:21,349 --> 01:06:16,140
that would be I mean obviously

1846
01:06:23,990 --> 01:06:21,359
I'm I want I'm not my my interest is for

1847
01:06:27,410 --> 01:06:24,000
the general public for the you know to

1848
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:27,420
become more aware of all of this so yeah

1849
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:29,039
it's a natural question to ask well

1850
01:06:33,109 --> 01:06:30,960
what's the evidence and then it's

1851
01:06:34,970 --> 01:06:33,119
natural to want to share that and I'm

1852
01:06:36,589 --> 01:06:34,980
sure there's things I didn't think of I

1853
01:06:38,210 --> 01:06:36,599
mean part of it for me is I don't have

1854
01:06:40,730 --> 01:06:38,220
everything in my brain because I've been

1855
01:06:42,349 --> 01:06:40,740
at this for so long and so I can't I'm

1856
01:06:43,789 --> 01:06:42,359
sure like afterwards I'll think oh I

1857
01:06:45,950 --> 01:06:43,799
wish I had said that or that I'm sure

1858
01:06:46,730 --> 01:06:45,960
there's things I'm not thinking of but

1859
01:06:48,549 --> 01:06:46,740
um

1860
01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:48,559
yeah I mean that's what it's all about

1861
01:06:52,670 --> 01:06:50,700
if there's enough time if you can get

1862
01:06:54,349 --> 01:06:52,680
your book surviving death and find two

1863
01:06:55,250 --> 01:06:54,359
or three studies just to say aloud

1864
01:06:57,109 --> 01:06:55,260
because some people are driving

1865
01:06:58,609 --> 01:06:57,119
listening to this so that they can look

1866
01:07:01,370 --> 01:06:58,619
it up later and say oh I would like to

1867
01:07:03,410 --> 01:07:01,380
look at the study by so-and-so okay I

1868
01:07:05,870 --> 01:07:03,420
think there's I think the realm of the

1869
01:07:07,430 --> 01:07:05,880
near-death experience is one of the ones

1870
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:07,440
that has the most published

1871
01:07:10,789 --> 01:07:09,359
peer-reviewed papers

1872
01:07:12,950 --> 01:07:10,799
um but there's in other fields there are

1873
01:07:15,710 --> 01:07:12,960
too but the one I mentioned to you is

1874
01:07:17,029 --> 01:07:15,720
December 2001 in the Lancet which I

1875
01:07:19,549 --> 01:07:17,039
think is you know one of the leading

1876
01:07:21,890 --> 01:07:19,559
medical journals I mean I know it is

1877
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:21,900
it's one of the leading medical journals

1878
01:07:25,730 --> 01:07:24,000
and it's you know there's four authors

1879
01:07:27,230 --> 01:07:25,740
to it I can give you their names and you

1880
01:07:29,210 --> 01:07:27,240
want sure it's called news

1881
01:07:30,589 --> 01:07:29,220
um okay Pim van lummel he's the probably

1882
01:07:32,329 --> 01:07:30,599
the lead author and he wrote a chapter

1883
01:07:33,829 --> 01:07:32,339
in my book he's been studying near-death

1884
01:07:36,770 --> 01:07:33,839
experiences forever he's a medical

1885
01:07:40,510 --> 01:07:36,780
doctor and from the Netherlands

1886
01:07:43,549 --> 01:07:40,520
um and then the second one is

1887
01:07:45,049 --> 01:07:43,559
Vincent Myers and Ingrid elfridge

1888
01:07:47,809 --> 01:07:45,059
elfrich

1889
01:07:50,930 --> 01:07:47,819
near-death experience in survivors of

1890
01:07:53,210 --> 01:07:50,940
cardiac arrest a perplex a prospective

1891
01:07:56,809 --> 01:07:53,220
study in the Netherlands is the title

1892
01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:56,819
it's in the Lancet 358 and you know the

1893
01:08:01,010 --> 01:07:58,799
in 2001 and I've got the

1894
01:08:03,049 --> 01:08:01,020
name of the uh you know the reference

1895
01:08:05,150 --> 01:08:03,059
numbers that you need to access it and

1896
01:08:07,609 --> 01:08:05,160
then there's some other studies here

1897
01:08:09,710 --> 01:08:07,619
here's another one

1898
01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:09,720
um a qualitative and quantitative study

1899
01:08:14,049 --> 01:08:12,000
of the incidence features in etiology of

1900
01:08:17,510 --> 01:08:14,059
near-death experiences in Cardiac Arrest

1901
01:08:19,550 --> 01:08:17,520
Cardiac Arrest survivors that's in a

1902
01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:19,560
journal called resuscitation

1903
01:08:25,130 --> 01:08:23,040
it has one two three four authors one of

1904
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:25,140
them being samparnia who's the lead

1905
01:08:29,410 --> 01:08:27,120
author who's very well known he's a

1906
01:08:31,610 --> 01:08:29,420
resuscitation ex you know

1907
01:08:33,590 --> 01:08:31,620
resuscitation expert or whatever there's

1908
01:08:35,930 --> 01:08:33,600
a you know that's his field and he's

1909
01:08:36,590 --> 01:08:35,940
done a lot of work on this

1910
01:08:38,689 --> 01:08:36,600
um

1911
01:08:40,849 --> 01:08:38,699
and then there's she's another one a

1912
01:08:43,010 --> 01:08:40,859
prospectively studied near-death

1913
01:08:45,169 --> 01:08:43,020
experience with corroborated out-of-body

1914
01:08:47,809 --> 01:08:45,179
perception and unexplained healing in

1915
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:47,819
the Journal of near-death studies

1916
01:08:52,669 --> 01:08:49,920
I don't know if that's peer review but I

1917
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:52,679
think it is another one by Bruce Grayson

1918
01:08:57,289 --> 01:08:55,199
incidents and correlates of near-death

1919
01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:57,299
experiences in a cardiac Cardiac Care

1920
01:09:02,390 --> 01:09:00,000
Unit it's in the Journal called The

1921
01:09:04,910 --> 01:09:02,400
General Hospital psychiatry

1922
01:09:06,530 --> 01:09:04,920
okay that's enough and I will put some

1923
01:09:09,169 --> 01:09:06,540
of the links in the description

1924
01:09:11,689 --> 01:09:09,179
thank you for that what does disclosure

1925
01:09:13,849 --> 01:09:11,699
mean to you when people say we I want

1926
01:09:15,349 --> 01:09:13,859
disclosure I saw in some people by the

1927
01:09:16,729 --> 01:09:15,359
way say disclosure has occurred in which

1928
01:09:18,229 --> 01:09:16,739
case I say by a man you have such a

1929
01:09:20,630 --> 01:09:18,239
disconnect from the people who are

1930
01:09:22,430 --> 01:09:20,640
clamoring for more evidence and it's

1931
01:09:24,289 --> 01:09:22,440
just such a removal of yourself from the

1932
01:09:25,729 --> 01:09:24,299
community that I feel like I don't know

1933
01:09:27,890 --> 01:09:25,739
if we're speaking the same language when

1934
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:27,900
we say disclosure has occurred but some

1935
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:29,279
people say that and I'm sure they have

1936
01:09:32,930 --> 01:09:30,480
their reasons

1937
01:09:34,490 --> 01:09:32,940
yeah and I think I think the fact that

1938
01:09:36,050 --> 01:09:34,500
people do have different perceptions of

1939
01:09:38,090 --> 01:09:36,060
it means that we don't really know what

1940
01:09:40,010 --> 01:09:38,100
it means I mean it means I've always

1941
01:09:41,870 --> 01:09:40,020
thought that that term

1942
01:09:44,209 --> 01:09:41,880
I never quite you know

1943
01:09:45,709 --> 01:09:44,219
was on the disclosure wagon for all the

1944
01:09:47,749 --> 01:09:45,719
years that that term has been tossed

1945
01:09:49,849 --> 01:09:47,759
around I never I think people have

1946
01:09:53,269 --> 01:09:49,859
different perceptions of what it means

1947
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:53,279
but my perception is that it would mean

1948
01:09:57,830 --> 01:09:55,920
an official statement

1949
01:10:00,830 --> 01:09:57,840
basically saying that we're not alone in

1950
01:10:02,689 --> 01:10:00,840
whatever form that statement might take

1951
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:02,699
uh

1952
01:10:07,970 --> 01:10:05,280
an acknowledgment of the fact that I

1953
01:10:09,229 --> 01:10:07,980
mean and some people think it means an

1954
01:10:11,689 --> 01:10:09,239
acknowledgment of the fact that we've

1955
01:10:14,150 --> 01:10:11,699
known about this since 1947 I mean I

1956
01:10:16,850 --> 01:10:14,160
don't know it's not a term that I use or

1957
01:10:19,550 --> 01:10:16,860
that I identify with very much so I it's

1958
01:10:22,430 --> 01:10:19,560
really up to those who use that term to

1959
01:10:23,390 --> 01:10:22,440
tell you what it means you know I mean

1960
01:10:25,490 --> 01:10:23,400
uh

1961
01:10:27,770 --> 01:10:25,500
I'm not using it so I don't really I

1962
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:27,780
can't answer that I find it so tricky

1963
01:10:31,130 --> 01:10:29,280
because even if the government did quote

1964
01:10:32,990 --> 01:10:31,140
unquote disclose some fact or set

1965
01:10:34,790 --> 01:10:33,000
effects it's not as if we would believe

1966
01:10:36,590 --> 01:10:34,800
it even if they say hey we're not alone

1967
01:10:39,050 --> 01:10:36,600
we would say well prove it or we have

1968
01:10:40,790 --> 01:10:39,060
bodies show me or we don't have bodies

1969
01:10:42,830 --> 01:10:40,800
prove that we don't believe you you've

1970
01:10:45,050 --> 01:10:42,840
lied to us so much and further even if

1971
01:10:47,149 --> 01:10:45,060
they disclose to me like Lou mentioned

1972
01:10:48,890 --> 01:10:47,159
what we know is 10 a partial truth can

1973
01:10:50,810 --> 01:10:48,900
be a lie in some sense a partial

1974
01:10:52,669 --> 01:10:50,820
disclosure is worse than no disclosure

1975
01:10:54,350 --> 01:10:52,679
there are several cases you can convince

1976
01:10:55,910 --> 01:10:54,360
yourself of that telling a bit of a

1977
01:10:57,709 --> 01:10:55,920
truth is much more misleading than

1978
01:10:59,990 --> 01:10:57,719
saying nothing at all it's just a tricky

1979
01:11:01,669 --> 01:11:00,000
word for Me Disclosure to Me Disclosure

1980
01:11:03,770 --> 01:11:01,679
would be that the scientific Community

1981
01:11:05,149 --> 01:11:03,780
has access to some of the data or all of

1982
01:11:07,729 --> 01:11:05,159
the data it has to come through

1983
01:11:10,189 --> 01:11:07,739
otherwise it's just we're believing them

1984
01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:10,199
well maybe disclosure will be when the

1985
01:11:14,990 --> 01:11:12,239
Galileo project led by Avi lope at

1986
01:11:16,490 --> 01:11:15,000
Harvard actually gets some data maybe

1987
01:11:18,590 --> 01:11:16,500
it'll be the scientists that'll make it

1988
01:11:20,209 --> 01:11:18,600
happen people think of it as being

1989
01:11:22,189 --> 01:11:20,219
up to the government to make it happen

1990
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:22,199
but you just raise an interesting point

1991
01:11:27,709 --> 01:11:24,239
it's like where are the scientists in

1992
01:11:29,330 --> 01:11:27,719
this and so the Galileo project is

1993
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:29,340
you know they're going to set up their

1994
01:11:35,090 --> 01:11:32,400
own means of capturing data that may

1995
01:11:35,990 --> 01:11:35,100
disclose may may be able to be proven to

1996
01:11:38,090 --> 01:11:36,000
be

1997
01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:38,100
technology from somewhere else or an

1998
01:11:40,970 --> 01:11:40,440
object from somewhere else

1999
01:11:44,689 --> 01:11:40,980
um

2000
01:11:47,030 --> 01:11:44,699
you know so we don't really know what it

2001
01:11:48,649 --> 01:11:47,040
means I think and what form it might

2002
01:11:50,510 --> 01:11:48,659
take and maybe it's a process that

2003
01:11:52,130 --> 01:11:50,520
happens in stages

2004
01:11:53,810 --> 01:11:52,140
which is why some people think it's

2005
01:11:55,850 --> 01:11:53,820
already happened because certain stages

2006
01:11:57,709 --> 01:11:55,860
of it have happened

2007
01:11:59,630 --> 01:11:57,719
I mean if step one was for the

2008
01:12:01,910 --> 01:11:59,640
government to acknowledge that UFOs are

2009
01:12:03,649 --> 01:12:01,920
real objects

2010
01:12:07,010 --> 01:12:03,659
they've done that and they had not done

2011
01:12:08,750 --> 01:12:07,020
that before you know June of 21 or

2012
01:12:10,910 --> 01:12:08,760
maybe they did it a little earlier but

2013
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:10,920
certainly not before 2017 they would

2014
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:13,440
they had not knowledged any of that

2015
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:15,360
you know since the close of blue book it

2016
01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:18,480
was like silence and it was ignoring

2017
01:12:22,669 --> 01:12:20,640
cases that no ignore events to happen

2018
01:12:24,709 --> 01:12:22,679
and if you can't ignore them

2019
01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:24,719
you make up something or you try to say

2020
01:12:27,350 --> 01:12:26,159
something to make them go away I mean

2021
01:12:29,450 --> 01:12:27,360
that has been the approach of the

2022
01:12:31,790 --> 01:12:29,460
government in all those decades

2023
01:12:33,709 --> 01:12:31,800
so you know even that is a level of

2024
01:12:35,090 --> 01:12:33,719
disclosure and maybe that's what people

2025
01:12:37,790 --> 01:12:35,100
are talking about when they say it's

2026
01:12:39,470 --> 01:12:37,800
already happened some people feel that

2027
01:12:41,209 --> 01:12:39,480
the government documents released in the

2028
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:41,219
1970s

2029
01:12:45,550 --> 01:12:43,679
our disclosure that basically they show

2030
01:12:49,130 --> 01:12:45,560
that UFOs are real

2031
01:12:52,250 --> 01:12:49,140
and a lot of the documents from the 50s

2032
01:12:54,110 --> 01:12:52,260
uh describe the perception that they

2033
01:12:56,149 --> 01:12:54,120
were not from Earth that they were

2034
01:12:57,530 --> 01:12:56,159
interplanetary or whatever

2035
01:13:00,709 --> 01:12:57,540
you know so

2036
01:13:02,510 --> 01:13:00,719
how do you define it I think that's I I

2037
01:13:04,490 --> 01:13:02,520
think I mean my perception has always

2038
01:13:07,130 --> 01:13:04,500
been that the real disclosure people are

2039
01:13:10,430 --> 01:13:07,140
talking about some massively

2040
01:13:12,530 --> 01:13:10,440
dramatic official government statement

2041
01:13:14,990 --> 01:13:12,540
that takes us to another level than

2042
01:13:16,669 --> 01:13:15,000
where we've been so far I don't know if

2043
01:13:19,550 --> 01:13:16,679
that's going to happen

2044
01:13:22,189 --> 01:13:19,560
um but you know I mean I think one thing

2045
01:13:23,870 --> 01:13:22,199
people think about is if uh some of

2046
01:13:28,250 --> 01:13:23,880
these Witnesses who are coming forward

2047
01:13:29,870 --> 01:13:28,260
now to Congress and to Arrow do uh come

2048
01:13:32,030 --> 01:13:29,880
up with information about crashed

2049
01:13:33,890 --> 01:13:32,040
objects or even debris that has been

2050
01:13:35,870 --> 01:13:33,900
that have been studied enough to prove

2051
01:13:38,390 --> 01:13:35,880
that they're not from here

2052
01:13:40,010 --> 01:13:38,400
if that was ever to be released perhaps

2053
01:13:43,189 --> 01:13:40,020
that's a form of disclosure perhaps

2054
01:13:45,530 --> 01:13:43,199
that's a form of proof the question is

2055
01:13:47,990 --> 01:13:45,540
will that happen and if it if they do

2056
01:13:49,970 --> 01:13:48,000
report these things to Congress first of

2057
01:13:51,530 --> 01:13:49,980
all Congress or Arrow or everybody

2058
01:13:54,050 --> 01:13:51,540
involved with this investigation will

2059
01:13:56,209 --> 01:13:54,060
have to track it down and make sure it's

2060
01:13:58,430 --> 01:13:56,219
accurate and verified for themselves

2061
01:14:00,590 --> 01:13:58,440
then the question becomes do we make

2062
01:14:01,729 --> 01:14:00,600
this public or not what are the risks in

2063
01:14:03,950 --> 01:14:01,739
doing that

2064
01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:03,960
maybe it won't be made public you know

2065
01:14:08,330 --> 01:14:06,960
so but I think we get closer and closer

2066
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:08,340
to something like that happening the

2067
01:14:15,050 --> 01:14:10,800
more time that passes and a lot of

2068
01:14:17,390 --> 01:14:15,060
people have uh expectations that this

2069
01:14:19,189 --> 01:14:17,400
process that's underway now people are

2070
01:14:20,930 --> 01:14:19,199
already involved with it that maybe it

2071
01:14:22,669 --> 01:14:20,940
will lead to something like that let's

2072
01:14:24,350 --> 01:14:22,679
jump off the speculative end and say

2073
01:14:26,270 --> 01:14:24,360
what would be some of the reasons that

2074
01:14:27,950 --> 01:14:26,280
the government would not tell the

2075
01:14:29,330 --> 01:14:27,960
citizens of something extraordinarily

2076
01:14:31,310 --> 01:14:29,340
occurring other than wanting the

2077
01:14:33,169 --> 01:14:31,320
technology so that they can outpace

2078
01:14:34,669 --> 01:14:33,179
China or Russia for instance one reason

2079
01:14:36,050 --> 01:14:34,679
would be panic but what would be some

2080
01:14:38,510 --> 01:14:36,060
other reasons

2081
01:14:39,590 --> 01:14:38,520
yeah I mean Panic is a broad term but it

2082
01:14:42,530 --> 01:14:39,600
could be there's just sort of the

2083
01:14:44,330 --> 01:14:42,540
destabilization of a society that might

2084
01:14:46,189 --> 01:14:44,340
occur if people were really freaked out

2085
01:14:48,290 --> 01:14:46,199
about it I mean I think that protecting

2086
01:14:50,330 --> 01:14:48,300
technology is the number one

2087
01:14:52,310 --> 01:14:50,340
protecting data that we don't want our

2088
01:14:54,649 --> 01:14:52,320
adversaries to have

2089
01:14:56,330 --> 01:14:54,659
but number two yeah could be the impact

2090
01:14:57,770 --> 01:14:56,340
on Society number three could be

2091
01:14:58,669 --> 01:14:57,780
concerns about

2092
01:15:01,610 --> 01:14:58,679
um

2093
01:15:04,430 --> 01:15:01,620
you know uh going after people who have

2094
01:15:05,930 --> 01:15:04,440
you know tried to convict people or or

2095
01:15:08,390 --> 01:15:05,940
going after people who have been

2096
01:15:10,130 --> 01:15:08,400
involved with keeping the secret over so

2097
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:10,140
many years trying to

2098
01:15:14,330 --> 01:15:12,239
take them to court or whatever you know

2099
01:15:15,050 --> 01:15:14,340
kind of event data going on

2100
01:15:17,450 --> 01:15:15,060
um

2101
01:15:19,010 --> 01:15:17,460
a lot of anger that we we haven't been

2102
01:15:21,950 --> 01:15:19,020
told sooner

2103
01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:21,960
uh you know it's a it's loaded

2104
01:15:25,970 --> 01:15:24,480
um and I you know I think if something

2105
01:15:27,649 --> 01:15:25,980
like this does come out it would

2106
01:15:29,689 --> 01:15:27,659
wouldn't be a bad idea to have some kind

2107
01:15:31,910 --> 01:15:29,699
of amnesty for those

2108
01:15:34,130 --> 01:15:31,920
from the Past who were doing what they

2109
01:15:35,689 --> 01:15:34,140
thought they needed to do and we're told

2110
01:15:36,830 --> 01:15:35,699
to do

2111
01:15:38,750 --> 01:15:36,840
um but then you know there's questions

2112
01:15:41,149 --> 01:15:38,760
of of crimes that may have been

2113
01:15:44,750 --> 01:15:41,159
committed of people who are harmed or

2114
01:15:47,830 --> 01:15:44,760
even killed to keep them quiet I mean

2115
01:15:50,450 --> 01:15:47,840
you know it opens up such a can of worms

2116
01:15:52,189 --> 01:15:50,460
and maybe there's a way for something to

2117
01:15:55,130 --> 01:15:52,199
come out in which

2118
01:15:57,590 --> 01:15:55,140
the past is not

2119
01:16:00,530 --> 01:15:57,600
dragged along with it which I personally

2120
01:16:03,110 --> 01:16:00,540
think would make a lot more sense and be

2121
01:16:05,750 --> 01:16:03,120
cleaner and for us to just focus on the

2122
01:16:08,930 --> 01:16:05,760
present what we know now

2123
01:16:10,729 --> 01:16:08,940
and not get bogged down and digging

2124
01:16:12,050 --> 01:16:10,739
through the past and all the misdeeds

2125
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:12,060
that occurred for all kinds of

2126
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:13,679
complicated reasons

2127
01:16:17,090 --> 01:16:15,600
and I don't know some people might not

2128
01:16:19,010 --> 01:16:17,100
like me saying that but I don't think

2129
01:16:21,410 --> 01:16:19,020
it's productive personally

2130
01:16:23,930 --> 01:16:21,420
um so

2131
01:16:25,910 --> 01:16:23,940
and then there you know there could be

2132
01:16:28,250 --> 01:16:25,920
other reasons I mean maybe the

2133
01:16:30,590 --> 01:16:28,260
explanations that our government is

2134
01:16:33,950 --> 01:16:30,600
withholding for us are much

2135
01:16:36,229 --> 01:16:33,960
scarier than we might think or

2136
01:16:38,689 --> 01:16:36,239
there's an acknowledgment that has to be

2137
01:16:40,669 --> 01:16:38,699
made of a lack of power that we might

2138
01:16:43,490 --> 01:16:40,679
have or our military might have a lack

2139
01:16:45,229 --> 01:16:43,500
of ability to control this phenomenon to

2140
01:16:47,090 --> 01:16:45,239
keep people safe

2141
01:16:49,430 --> 01:16:47,100
that of course was connected to what

2142
01:16:52,250 --> 01:16:49,440
you're saying about panic but

2143
01:16:54,229 --> 01:16:52,260
you know there I it's a it's um the

2144
01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:54,239
implications that it might have

2145
01:16:59,149 --> 01:16:57,120
for the public can be complicated and I

2146
01:17:02,090 --> 01:16:59,159
mean the fact that it's it's a gradual

2147
01:17:04,010 --> 01:17:02,100
unfoldment probably makes a lot of sense

2148
01:17:05,330 --> 01:17:04,020
you don't want to shock people you don't

2149
01:17:07,370 --> 01:17:05,340
want to disrupt

2150
01:17:11,990 --> 01:17:07,380
the structures that we have in society

2151
01:17:15,709 --> 01:17:12,000
that you know could be impacted by this

2152
01:17:17,270 --> 01:17:15,719
um and some people believe Kurt that

2153
01:17:19,010 --> 01:17:17,280
it really isn't going to be a big deal

2154
01:17:20,390 --> 01:17:19,020
for if this announcement were made some

2155
01:17:22,010 --> 01:17:20,400
people believe and if you know people

2156
01:17:23,390 --> 01:17:22,020
have pie levels that who have been

2157
01:17:26,270 --> 01:17:23,400
involved with this thing for a long time

2158
01:17:27,530 --> 01:17:26,280
that it really won't be a big deal and

2159
01:17:28,910 --> 01:17:27,540
that most people just won't be that

2160
01:17:30,110 --> 01:17:28,920
concerned about it I mean we have to

2161
01:17:31,790 --> 01:17:30,120
remember that the people who are

2162
01:17:33,590 --> 01:17:31,800
interested in this topic are a very

2163
01:17:36,350 --> 01:17:33,600
small number

2164
01:17:39,229 --> 01:17:36,360
we kind of get we're so involved that we

2165
01:17:41,870 --> 01:17:39,239
think it's it's reality it's life right

2166
01:17:44,330 --> 01:17:41,880
but there's so many people that are just

2167
01:17:45,950 --> 01:17:44,340
concerned about paying their bills and

2168
01:17:48,290 --> 01:17:45,960
doing their jobs and raising their kids

2169
01:17:50,570 --> 01:17:48,300
and the question for them would be well

2170
01:17:52,550 --> 01:17:50,580
yeah that's kind of interesting but it

2171
01:17:55,010 --> 01:17:52,560
doesn't affect my life

2172
01:17:58,070 --> 01:17:55,020
and if it's not anything that I have to

2173
01:17:59,330 --> 01:17:58,080
worry about or be scared of for me and

2174
01:18:02,030 --> 01:17:59,340
my family

2175
01:18:03,530 --> 01:18:02,040
then I I don't really care that much and

2176
01:18:04,850 --> 01:18:03,540
I'm just going to go about my life you

2177
01:18:06,229 --> 01:18:04,860
know it's not necessarily going to

2178
01:18:08,570 --> 01:18:06,239
affect everyone

2179
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:08,580
some people don't have a curiosity about

2180
01:18:12,050 --> 01:18:10,560
stuff either they're just focused on

2181
01:18:14,209 --> 01:18:12,060
their daily lives and they're struggling

2182
01:18:15,770 --> 01:18:14,219
to survive every day

2183
01:18:20,930 --> 01:18:15,780
so

2184
01:18:22,610 --> 01:18:20,940
impact people I think Tom Delong has

2185
01:18:24,649 --> 01:18:22,620
intimated that that it could be that the

2186
01:18:26,750 --> 01:18:24,659
government is benevolent and that

2187
01:18:28,610 --> 01:18:26,760
they're withholding for a positive

2188
01:18:30,950 --> 01:18:28,620
reason not something that is a power

2189
01:18:32,810 --> 01:18:30,960
struggle or because they're trying to

2190
01:18:34,610 --> 01:18:32,820
increase their influence and and

2191
01:18:38,470 --> 01:18:34,620
dominance and so on I don't recall his

2192
01:18:40,729 --> 01:18:38,480
reasoning for that but do you remember

2193
01:18:43,010 --> 01:18:40,739
what he's saying is that it's a good

2194
01:18:44,870 --> 01:18:43,020
thing it's being withheld yeah that when

2195
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:44,880
we find out we'll thank them something

2196
01:18:48,229 --> 01:18:47,040
like that could be I mean it could be

2197
01:18:50,330 --> 01:18:48,239
that's what I mean about if it's

2198
01:18:52,850 --> 01:18:50,340
something frightening

2199
01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:52,860
you know maybe every element of that

2200
01:18:57,229 --> 01:18:55,440
shouldn't is not going to be helpful for

2201
01:18:58,430 --> 01:18:57,239
people to know about I mean I can

2202
01:18:59,390 --> 01:18:58,440
understand the thinking along those

2203
01:19:01,189 --> 01:18:59,400
lines

2204
01:19:03,470 --> 01:19:01,199
right What's It Gonna Do You Wanna

2205
01:19:05,570 --> 01:19:03,480
terrify and depress everybody in the in

2206
01:19:07,430 --> 01:19:05,580
the society when they learn

2207
01:19:09,290 --> 01:19:07,440
you know about what's going on that they

2208
01:19:11,450 --> 01:19:09,300
never even imagined what's going on I

2209
01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:11,460
mean it's a it's a valid question what

2210
01:19:15,830 --> 01:19:13,920
what good would it do would you want to

2211
01:19:18,350 --> 01:19:15,840
learn it some truth if it was terrifying

2212
01:19:19,610 --> 01:19:18,360
and depressing I definitely do I want to

2213
01:19:20,810 --> 01:19:19,620
know the truth and part of it is because

2214
01:19:24,229 --> 01:19:20,820
I've been involved with this for a long

2215
01:19:25,970 --> 01:19:24,239
time and and I I I already think

2216
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:25,980
things look pretty dire in the world

2217
01:19:32,270 --> 01:19:29,760
anyway so you know I always want to know

2218
01:19:34,669 --> 01:19:32,280
the truth as much as possible but that's

2219
01:19:37,130 --> 01:19:34,679
not true for everyone

2220
01:19:39,350 --> 01:19:37,140
you know maybe I'm like a masochist or

2221
01:19:40,729 --> 01:19:39,360
something I think the majority of the

2222
01:19:42,590 --> 01:19:40,739
people in the comments section agree

2223
01:19:44,450 --> 01:19:42,600
with you have you read the Dark Forest

2224
01:19:47,270 --> 01:19:44,460
or heard of the remembrance of Earth's

2225
01:19:48,890 --> 01:19:47,280
past I haven't okay I'll give a

2226
01:19:50,149 --> 01:19:48,900
two-minute explanation see here's

2227
01:19:52,070 --> 01:19:50,159
something that I think about frequently

2228
01:19:53,510 --> 01:19:52,080
I think that if you haven't found the

2229
01:19:54,770 --> 01:19:53,520
bounds that could be revealed to you

2230
01:19:56,630 --> 01:19:54,780
such that you would want to rewind time

2231
01:19:58,189 --> 01:19:56,640
and you would wish oh my gosh I wish I

2232
01:19:59,810 --> 01:19:58,199
didn't know I wish I didn't investigate

2233
01:20:02,030 --> 01:19:59,820
I wish I didn't fly too close to the Sun

2234
01:20:03,229 --> 01:20:02,040
for instance in AI if the people who are

2235
01:20:05,510 --> 01:20:03,239
behind the development of machine

2236
01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:05,520
learning like open AI people can't see

2237
01:20:08,990 --> 01:20:07,440
how their technology can go terribly

2238
01:20:10,010 --> 01:20:09,000
terribly wrong if they haven't thought

2239
01:20:11,330 --> 01:20:10,020
about that then they shouldn't be

2240
01:20:13,189 --> 01:20:11,340
developing it and same with the people

2241
01:20:14,990 --> 01:20:13,199
who are developing the nuclear bomb Like

2242
01:20:16,610 --> 01:20:15,000
Richard Feynman is on he said we were

2243
01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:16,620
just having fun as physicists and

2244
01:20:20,270 --> 01:20:18,480
Einstein even said later I wish I could

2245
01:20:21,590 --> 01:20:20,280
burn my hands I would never have signed

2246
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:21,600
off on this had I thought about the

2247
01:20:24,770 --> 01:20:23,760
implications so in the dark Forest it's

2248
01:20:27,050 --> 01:20:24,780
a book series that's called the

2249
01:20:29,570 --> 01:20:27,060
remembrance of Earth's past there's this

2250
01:20:31,610 --> 01:20:29,580
Chinese scientist who found a way to

2251
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:31,620
communicate with other galaxies and she

2252
01:20:35,090 --> 01:20:33,120
says respond to us if we're not alone

2253
01:20:37,850 --> 01:20:35,100
something like that someone answer is

2254
01:20:40,010 --> 01:20:37,860
back from a different galaxy and says if

2255
01:20:42,290 --> 01:20:40,020
you know what's good for you do not send

2256
01:20:44,209 --> 01:20:42,300
out any more messages the universe is a

2257
01:20:45,950 --> 01:20:44,219
hostile hostile place anyway I'm not

2258
01:20:47,570 --> 01:20:45,960
going to go more into the book but she

2259
01:20:49,729 --> 01:20:47,580
doesn't listen and there are dire

2260
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:49,739
consequences so what frightens you about

2261
01:20:54,350 --> 01:20:52,320
this phenomenon

2262
01:20:56,870 --> 01:20:54,360
um

2263
01:21:00,590 --> 01:20:56,880
I mean I I don't I I can't really say

2264
01:21:05,870 --> 01:21:01,630
um

2265
01:21:07,669 --> 01:21:05,880
but I'm more I don't know I I'm not

2266
01:21:10,490 --> 01:21:07,679
totally comfortable responding to how

2267
01:21:13,430 --> 01:21:10,500
would I respond what frightens me I mean

2268
01:21:15,110 --> 01:21:13,440
I think the reality is and you know if

2269
01:21:16,490 --> 01:21:15,120
you talk to someone like Jim semivan or

2270
01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:16,500
people that have actually encountered it

2271
01:21:20,870 --> 01:21:18,000
which I haven't

2272
01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:20,880
that it has complete power over us

2273
01:21:25,669 --> 01:21:23,040
right it's it's way more advanced than

2274
01:21:27,890 --> 01:21:25,679
we are so it can do whatever it wants

2275
01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:27,900
and I'm not saying that it has done

2276
01:21:31,310 --> 01:21:29,520
anything harmful

2277
01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:31,320
but um

2278
01:21:36,530 --> 01:21:34,560
it's something more advanced than we are

2279
01:21:38,990 --> 01:21:36,540
and we're not so basically we're not at

2280
01:21:40,370 --> 01:21:39,000
the top of the food chain right even

2281
01:21:41,750 --> 01:21:40,380
though we've always thought of ourselves

2282
01:21:44,810 --> 01:21:41,760
as being at the top of the food chain

2283
01:21:48,649 --> 01:21:44,820
you know we are the the most intelligent

2284
01:21:50,450 --> 01:21:48,659
Advanced species on the planet Earth and

2285
01:21:52,310 --> 01:21:50,460
really that's not true

2286
01:21:55,250 --> 01:21:52,320
there's another species there's another

2287
01:21:57,290 --> 01:21:55,260
life former entity or Consciousness

2288
01:21:58,790 --> 01:21:57,300
non-human

2289
01:21:59,810 --> 01:21:58,800
Consciousness however you want to

2290
01:22:02,330 --> 01:21:59,820
describe it

2291
01:22:05,689 --> 01:22:02,340
that is more advanced than we are

2292
01:22:07,010 --> 01:22:05,699
and it's it's a shock in our thinking to

2293
01:22:10,010 --> 01:22:07,020
come to terms with that I don't think

2294
01:22:13,010 --> 01:22:10,020
most people think are aware of that

2295
01:22:15,229 --> 01:22:13,020
but that's reality and so

2296
01:22:18,470 --> 01:22:15,239
you can be afraid of it because you you

2297
01:22:21,890 --> 01:22:18,480
know you're not in control

2298
01:22:24,470 --> 01:22:21,900
and what if these uh what if this

2299
01:22:26,090 --> 01:22:24,480
whatever this is decides that it doesn't

2300
01:22:27,290 --> 01:22:26,100
want human beings around anymore it

2301
01:22:28,610 --> 01:22:27,300
wants to use the planet for something

2302
01:22:31,310 --> 01:22:28,620
else

2303
01:22:34,430 --> 01:22:31,320
there's nothing we can do about it

2304
01:22:37,790 --> 01:22:34,440
what keeps you up at night Leslie

2305
01:22:41,810 --> 01:22:37,800
nothing except maybe the trucks on the

2306
01:22:45,950 --> 01:22:41,820
street of New York City I mean no

2307
01:22:47,570 --> 01:22:45,960
um no I I I'm not I I'm not really kept

2308
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:47,580
up I'm not anxious I mean I'm just

2309
01:22:52,189 --> 01:22:50,400
always trying to learn more

2310
01:22:53,470 --> 01:22:52,199
um

2311
01:22:56,570 --> 01:22:53,480
so

2312
01:22:59,090 --> 01:22:56,580
I wouldn't say I'm kept up at night

2313
01:23:01,370 --> 01:22:59,100
I'm a good sleeper can you tell us about

2314
01:23:02,870 --> 01:23:01,380
the case in Brazil the for hinia I

2315
01:23:05,330 --> 01:23:02,880
believe it's called for people who are

2316
01:23:07,669 --> 01:23:05,340
unaware yeah for genius how it's

2317
01:23:09,770 --> 01:23:07,679
pronounced I mean people may have seen

2318
01:23:10,910 --> 01:23:09,780
James Fox's film called moment of

2319
01:23:12,770 --> 01:23:10,920
contact

2320
01:23:14,890 --> 01:23:12,780
which just came out this past year it's

2321
01:23:17,450 --> 01:23:14,900
really worth seeing but it's it's it's

2322
01:23:20,090 --> 01:23:17,460
basically a fascinating case because it

2323
01:23:24,649 --> 01:23:20,100
involved the capture of

2324
01:23:26,209 --> 01:23:24,659
creatures of enter you know uh however

2325
01:23:28,189 --> 01:23:26,219
you want to describe them non-human

2326
01:23:29,510 --> 01:23:28,199
creatures and

2327
01:23:32,510 --> 01:23:29,520
um

2328
01:23:34,430 --> 01:23:32,520
there's a lot of interviews that James

2329
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:34,440
has done we know that there are videos

2330
01:23:39,189 --> 01:23:36,480
and pictures of these creatures that

2331
01:23:43,010 --> 01:23:39,199
exist they were in the hospital

2332
01:23:45,169 --> 01:23:43,020
they died they you know their bodies and

2333
01:23:48,770 --> 01:23:45,179
debris from the incident were taken to

2334
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:48,780
the United States apparently

2335
01:23:52,729 --> 01:23:51,120
um it's a very very involved case which

2336
01:23:55,130 --> 01:23:52,739
people have been looking into for years

2337
01:23:56,689 --> 01:23:55,140
and the people who the witnesses and

2338
01:23:58,550 --> 01:23:56,699
people involved have been terrified to

2339
01:24:00,050 --> 01:23:58,560
talk about it because the threats that

2340
01:24:02,209 --> 01:24:00,060
they've received

2341
01:24:05,450 --> 01:24:02,219
so I've been doing a little work on the

2342
01:24:07,729 --> 01:24:05,460
medical there was one uh police officer

2343
01:24:09,590 --> 01:24:07,739
military police officer who actually was

2344
01:24:11,390 --> 01:24:09,600
the one who grabbed

2345
01:24:14,390 --> 01:24:11,400
this entity when they were trying to

2346
01:24:16,070 --> 01:24:14,400
capture it and later died as a result of

2347
01:24:18,050 --> 01:24:16,080
that of the contact physical contact

2348
01:24:20,330 --> 01:24:18,060
with this entity

2349
01:24:22,669 --> 01:24:20,340
and so I've been doing some work I'm

2350
01:24:25,250 --> 01:24:22,679
James Fox is the main investigator into

2351
01:24:27,709 --> 01:24:25,260
this but I've been trying to help out by

2352
01:24:29,990 --> 01:24:27,719
looking into some of the medical

2353
01:24:32,090 --> 01:24:30,000
aspects of what happened to this young

2354
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:32,100
man who died and seeing if that can get

2355
01:24:35,570 --> 01:24:33,360
records

2356
01:24:37,910 --> 01:24:35,580
documenting because he was in the

2357
01:24:39,410 --> 01:24:37,920
hospital he was treating by a bunch of

2358
01:24:41,570 --> 01:24:39,420
doctors there's all kinds of Records

2359
01:24:43,070 --> 01:24:41,580
about what happened to him and so I have

2360
01:24:45,729 --> 01:24:43,080
talked to some of the doctors that were

2361
01:24:48,709 --> 01:24:45,739
involved and I've gotten some um

2362
01:24:50,510 --> 01:24:48,719
documents translated which were autopsy

2363
01:24:52,430 --> 01:24:50,520
reports done on him that are interesting

2364
01:24:53,930 --> 01:24:52,440
but it's an ongoing investigation it's

2365
01:24:55,189 --> 01:24:53,940
not I don't have a whole lot to share

2366
01:24:57,110 --> 01:24:55,199
about it yet

2367
01:24:59,930 --> 01:24:57,120
and I hope to keep going with that but

2368
01:25:02,090 --> 01:24:59,940
it's it's really fascinating and um

2369
01:25:03,830 --> 01:25:02,100
you know what what's the potential in

2370
01:25:05,330 --> 01:25:03,840
that case is so what's so explosive

2371
01:25:09,709 --> 01:25:05,340
about it is that if we could actually

2372
01:25:11,570 --> 01:25:09,719
document the reality of these entities

2373
01:25:13,790 --> 01:25:11,580
if they're you know and we know that the

2374
01:25:16,490 --> 01:25:13,800
proof of that is there it's just not

2375
01:25:18,709 --> 01:25:16,500
coming out but think how that if you

2376
01:25:21,890 --> 01:25:18,719
talk about disclosure

2377
01:25:23,450 --> 01:25:21,900
you know think about that uh if there

2378
01:25:26,149 --> 01:25:23,460
could be proof and this has been in

2379
01:25:27,770 --> 01:25:26,159
another country so the America I'm sure

2380
01:25:29,950 --> 01:25:27,780
America has a lot of control over what

2381
01:25:33,410 --> 01:25:29,960
comes out but maybe not complete control

2382
01:25:35,390 --> 01:25:33,420
and you just don't know uh if some of

2383
01:25:38,149 --> 01:25:35,400
the people in Brazil that are sitting on

2384
01:25:40,250 --> 01:25:38,159
this information might feel they can

2385
01:25:42,229 --> 01:25:40,260
release it so far

2386
01:25:43,430 --> 01:25:42,239
they haven't and it's because they're

2387
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:43,440
terrified

2388
01:25:46,970 --> 01:25:45,600
so the doctors they remember this person

2389
01:25:49,970 --> 01:25:46,980
you just say hey do you recall a case

2390
01:25:52,490 --> 01:25:49,980
from a few years ago about so-and-so no

2391
01:25:55,010 --> 01:25:52,500
I mean this case was hugely famous it

2392
01:25:57,410 --> 01:25:55,020
was covered you know by media and they

2393
01:25:58,550 --> 01:25:57,420
all know about it so you know you know

2394
01:26:00,110 --> 01:25:58,560
you just mentioned the name of the

2395
01:26:02,030 --> 01:26:00,120
person who died and they know exactly

2396
01:26:03,590 --> 01:26:02,040
who you're talking about

2397
01:26:05,090 --> 01:26:03,600
um yeah I know this is this is known

2398
01:26:07,310 --> 01:26:05,100
throughout the world and it's been

2399
01:26:09,890 --> 01:26:07,320
investigated for so I just took place in

2400
01:26:12,350 --> 01:26:09,900
the 1990s so it was a while ago but

2401
01:26:14,810 --> 01:26:12,360
uh they definitely know what this is

2402
01:26:16,610 --> 01:26:14,820
about the people you talk to

2403
01:26:18,530 --> 01:26:16,620
yeah do you think that private

2404
01:26:22,070 --> 01:26:18,540
corporations have more information on

2405
01:26:25,970 --> 01:26:24,470
I don't know about more but I think some

2406
01:26:28,189 --> 01:26:25,980
of the aerospace companies who are

2407
01:26:30,830 --> 01:26:28,199
contracted with the government probably

2408
01:26:32,930 --> 01:26:30,840
have a lot have information they've been

2409
01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:32,940
looking into some of these the physical

2410
01:26:37,790 --> 01:26:35,760
materials and physical evidence for this

2411
01:26:39,229 --> 01:26:37,800
and I'm not in a position to know how

2412
01:26:41,450 --> 01:26:39,239
much of that is shared with the

2413
01:26:43,910 --> 01:26:41,460
government and whether they they keep a

2414
01:26:45,530 --> 01:26:43,920
lot of it to themselves I mean all of

2415
01:26:47,149 --> 01:26:45,540
that is would be buried under special

2416
01:26:48,709 --> 01:26:47,159
access programs and that would all be

2417
01:26:50,870 --> 01:26:48,719
classified so

2418
01:26:53,810 --> 01:26:50,880
I'm not in any position to know about

2419
01:26:55,370 --> 01:26:53,820
that sure can you expand on how some

2420
01:26:57,290 --> 01:26:55,380
private aerospace companies may have

2421
01:27:00,169 --> 01:26:57,300
material how do they come in possession

2422
01:27:02,450 --> 01:27:00,179
of that what do they do with it

2423
01:27:04,189 --> 01:27:02,460
well I wish I knew more um again this is

2424
01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:04,199
all super sensitive stuff so I don't

2425
01:27:08,629 --> 01:27:05,940
know that much about it but I mean I

2426
01:27:10,490 --> 01:27:08,639
I've been told by sources that

2427
01:27:13,310 --> 01:27:10,500
aerospace companies definitely are

2428
01:27:15,830 --> 01:27:13,320
involved Harry Reid certainly strongly

2429
01:27:17,689 --> 01:27:15,840
implied this in my one interview I did

2430
01:27:21,350 --> 01:27:17,699
with him

2431
01:27:24,110 --> 01:27:21,360
um and uh others have told me this too

2432
01:27:26,030 --> 01:27:24,120
um and you know but how it happens and

2433
01:27:28,250 --> 01:27:26,040
what they know and all of those details

2434
01:27:30,649 --> 01:27:28,260
I don't know that's all I forget what

2435
01:27:32,930 --> 01:27:30,659
your exact question was um

2436
01:27:35,570 --> 01:27:32,940
I just I just believe and again another

2437
01:27:38,090 --> 01:27:35,580
thing is the Wilson memo that famous uh

2438
01:27:39,950 --> 01:27:38,100
Mo written by Eric Davis references

2439
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:39,960
aerospace companies being involved too

2440
01:27:43,669 --> 01:27:42,000
you can find it throughout

2441
01:27:46,430 --> 01:27:43,679
you know and I'm sure

2442
01:27:48,169 --> 01:27:46,440
invest you know researchers who document

2443
01:27:50,629 --> 01:27:48,179
all this stuff to the like people like

2444
01:27:52,310 --> 01:27:50,639
Richard Dolan and others probably have a

2445
01:27:54,770 --> 01:27:52,320
lot of information they probably have it

2446
01:27:57,530 --> 01:27:54,780
all organized in terms of every time

2447
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:57,540
it's been referenced you know but um

2448
01:28:01,370 --> 01:27:59,280
well some of it I noticed from people

2449
01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:01,380
talking to sources off the Record who

2450
01:28:05,570 --> 01:28:03,600
have have knowledge of this

2451
01:28:06,890 --> 01:28:05,580
but I don't I don't know any specifics

2452
01:28:08,930 --> 01:28:06,900
because it's all

2453
01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:08,940
highly sensitive stuff

2454
01:28:12,229 --> 01:28:10,800
what do you make of the Wilson memos and

2455
01:28:14,629 --> 01:28:12,239
can you outline what they are for people

2456
01:28:17,810 --> 01:28:14,639
who are unfamiliar

2457
01:28:19,729 --> 01:28:17,820
well um the the Wilson yeah the Wilson

2458
01:28:22,010 --> 01:28:19,739
document or the Eric Davis memo however

2459
01:28:24,830 --> 01:28:22,020
you want to refer to it was a series of

2460
01:28:27,709 --> 01:28:24,840
notes recorded by Eric Davis who's a

2461
01:28:29,689 --> 01:28:27,719
physicist with an absolute unbelievable

2462
01:28:30,890 --> 01:28:29,699
memory

2463
01:28:34,189 --> 01:28:30,900
um and I've talked to that guy the

2464
01:28:36,110 --> 01:28:34,199
details that are in his brain uh are

2465
01:28:38,090 --> 01:28:36,120
phenomenal so it's conceivable that he

2466
01:28:39,709 --> 01:28:38,100
could remember such a meaning so he had

2467
01:28:40,850 --> 01:28:39,719
a meeting with a man named Admiral Tom

2468
01:28:44,930 --> 01:28:40,860
Wilson

2469
01:28:46,910 --> 01:28:44,940
uh back in the 1990s again I just don't

2470
01:28:48,229 --> 01:28:46,920
remember the exact year

2471
01:28:51,590 --> 01:28:48,239
um but

2472
01:28:53,450 --> 01:28:51,600
uh and it was in a car and then after

2473
01:28:54,709 --> 01:28:53,460
the meeting was over he made these notes

2474
01:28:56,870 --> 01:28:54,719
about what would happen in that meeting

2475
01:28:59,870 --> 01:28:56,880
and it's in that meeting

2476
01:29:01,370 --> 01:28:59,880
um Admiral Wilson described how he had

2477
01:29:03,709 --> 01:29:01,380
tried to get access to some of these

2478
01:29:06,050 --> 01:29:03,719
special he was I think he was a Joint

2479
01:29:07,070 --> 01:29:06,060
Chiefs of Staff at the time again if I

2480
01:29:08,570 --> 01:29:07,080
had known we were going to talk about

2481
01:29:11,270 --> 01:29:08,580
this I would have refreshed my memory

2482
01:29:12,770 --> 01:29:11,280
before I came on but um he was a very

2483
01:29:14,330 --> 01:29:12,780
high level and he believed that he

2484
01:29:17,390 --> 01:29:14,340
should if there were such a program

2485
01:29:19,669 --> 01:29:17,400
which was looking into crashed objects

2486
01:29:22,070 --> 01:29:19,679
of you know non-human origin that he

2487
01:29:23,750 --> 01:29:22,080
would know so he went banging on doors

2488
01:29:24,890 --> 01:29:23,760
trying to find the location of these

2489
01:29:26,990 --> 01:29:24,900
programs

2490
01:29:29,450 --> 01:29:27,000
and he was telling Eric Davis at this

2491
01:29:32,110 --> 01:29:29,460
meeting that he had found one

2492
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:32,120
and they acknowledged that they had a

2493
01:29:37,189 --> 01:29:35,520
crashed object not made by human hands

2494
01:29:38,750 --> 01:29:37,199
was the way they described it these

2495
01:29:41,450 --> 01:29:38,760
people in this program but they were not

2496
01:29:43,370 --> 01:29:41,460
going to allow for him access he was not

2497
01:29:45,950 --> 01:29:43,380
on the bigot list of people who had

2498
01:29:48,050 --> 01:29:45,960
access and they basically told him to go

2499
01:29:50,030 --> 01:29:48,060
away and then he was

2500
01:29:52,430 --> 01:29:50,040
told to keep his mouth shut by people

2501
01:29:54,470 --> 01:29:52,440
about it and not to pursue this any

2502
01:29:56,030 --> 01:29:54,480
further

2503
01:29:57,890 --> 01:29:56,040
um and that's basically what the I mean

2504
01:30:00,590 --> 01:29:57,900
I encourage it's fascinating to read

2505
01:30:03,350 --> 01:30:00,600
this memo you have to go on and read it

2506
01:30:05,689 --> 01:30:03,360
um and so

2507
01:30:07,090 --> 01:30:05,699
uh Wilson has denied that the meeting

2508
01:30:10,910 --> 01:30:07,100
ever happened

2509
01:30:13,090 --> 01:30:10,920
and Eric cannot comment on it so he

2510
01:30:16,070 --> 01:30:13,100
doesn't say one way or the other exactly

2511
01:30:18,770 --> 01:30:16,080
yeah he's not going to comment on it

2512
01:30:21,350 --> 01:30:18,780
um I my my colleague Ralph Blumenthal

2513
01:30:25,430 --> 01:30:21,360
and I tried to dig into this and it's

2514
01:30:28,910 --> 01:30:25,440
it's very hard to get any definitive

2515
01:30:30,830 --> 01:30:28,920
on the record sources that could verify

2516
01:30:32,090 --> 01:30:30,840
anything around that memo even though

2517
01:30:34,430 --> 01:30:32,100
there's a lot of names in there and

2518
01:30:36,470 --> 01:30:34,440
stuff like that it's it's just

2519
01:30:38,209 --> 01:30:36,480
impossible to I mean there's been some

2520
01:30:39,530 --> 01:30:38,219
great research done on it I'm not the

2521
01:30:42,110 --> 01:30:39,540
one who's done it

2522
01:30:44,450 --> 01:30:42,120
by various people in the UFO research

2523
01:30:46,610 --> 01:30:44,460
world have done fantastic documents and

2524
01:30:49,310 --> 01:30:46,620
long reports on this

2525
01:30:51,470 --> 01:30:49,320
um which I'm trying trouble naming it

2526
01:30:52,910 --> 01:30:51,480
right now but um

2527
01:30:53,990 --> 01:30:52,920
there's a lot of information out there

2528
01:30:56,930 --> 01:30:54,000
about it

2529
01:30:59,689 --> 01:30:56,940
yeah and do you take Eric Davis's no

2530
01:31:02,030 --> 01:30:59,699
comment as an admission of its veracity

2531
01:31:04,430 --> 01:31:02,040
because if it was false he would just

2532
01:31:07,010 --> 01:31:04,440
say no it's false does he always say no

2533
01:31:08,930 --> 01:31:07,020
comment no matter what

2534
01:31:10,370 --> 01:31:08,940
well you'd have to look and again there

2535
01:31:12,169 --> 01:31:10,380
are documents out there that have have

2536
01:31:14,330 --> 01:31:12,179
everything Eric has ever said about this

2537
01:31:16,189 --> 01:31:14,340
written down you know so you can look

2538
01:31:18,729 --> 01:31:16,199
and decide for yourself I personally

2539
01:31:21,110 --> 01:31:18,739
know him I believe he's an honest

2540
01:31:22,790 --> 01:31:21,120
individual he would not make I don't

2541
01:31:26,030 --> 01:31:22,800
believe personally he would make this up

2542
01:31:28,669 --> 01:31:26,040
so I don't believe he did make it up and

2543
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:28,679
I know he has an extraordinary memory

2544
01:31:34,430 --> 01:31:30,719
and

2545
01:31:36,229 --> 01:31:34,440
you want to analyze the way he's

2546
01:31:38,450 --> 01:31:36,239
responded to questions about it again

2547
01:31:40,310 --> 01:31:38,460
you can look I I

2548
01:31:42,229 --> 01:31:40,320
I bet there's somebody who could put in

2549
01:31:44,390 --> 01:31:42,239
the chat right now the exact document

2550
01:31:46,669 --> 01:31:44,400
I'm talking about it came out

2551
01:31:49,370 --> 01:31:46,679
within the last six months I think this

2552
01:31:52,189 --> 01:31:49,380
long detailed analysis

2553
01:31:54,290 --> 01:31:52,199
under a pseudonym by somebody who

2554
01:31:56,450 --> 01:31:54,300
analyzed that document

2555
01:31:58,010 --> 01:31:56,460
in incredible detail

2556
01:32:00,530 --> 01:31:58,020
somebody could probably put that in the

2557
01:32:02,450 --> 01:32:00,540
chat right now I just sure sure who is

2558
01:32:04,490 --> 01:32:02,460
Stuart Alexander and why is he important

2559
01:32:06,830 --> 01:32:04,500
to the development of your work

2560
01:32:09,290 --> 01:32:06,840
uh Stuart Alexander is a physical medium

2561
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:09,300
who lives in the UK who I got involved

2562
01:32:13,729 --> 01:32:11,040
studying his mediumship when I was

2563
01:32:15,709 --> 01:32:13,739
writing my book surviving death

2564
01:32:17,270 --> 01:32:15,719
um and then I ended up having a lot of

2565
01:32:19,970 --> 01:32:17,280
experiences with him that were really

2566
01:32:22,129 --> 01:32:19,980
interesting and both from a you know

2567
01:32:25,070 --> 01:32:22,139
journalistic perspective and from a

2568
01:32:26,570 --> 01:32:25,080
personal perspective and I'm still very

2569
01:32:28,669 --> 01:32:26,580
involved with this group that worked

2570
01:32:30,649 --> 01:32:28,679
with him and physical mediumship is a

2571
01:32:34,189 --> 01:32:30,659
very strange

2572
01:32:37,129 --> 01:32:34,199
rare thing and you know we can go into

2573
01:32:38,209 --> 01:32:37,139
it if you want uh but I think a lot of

2574
01:32:41,750 --> 01:32:38,219
people are going to think it's pretty

2575
01:32:44,209 --> 01:32:41,760
weird and you know it's hard to talk

2576
01:32:46,189 --> 01:32:44,219
about without placing it in context of a

2577
01:32:48,110 --> 01:32:46,199
historical context and really

2578
01:32:50,209 --> 01:32:48,120
giving a lot of background so that

2579
01:32:51,950 --> 01:32:50,219
people can accept it that how long would

2580
01:32:55,010 --> 01:32:51,960
that take five minutes to do that or

2581
01:32:56,149 --> 01:32:55,020
much longer I don't know you want to try

2582
01:32:57,350 --> 01:32:56,159
do you want to start and then feel like

2583
01:32:59,990 --> 01:32:57,360
ah no

2584
01:33:01,610 --> 01:33:00,000
I mean I can oh I'll give a little

2585
01:33:03,470 --> 01:33:01,620
synopsis but I would yeah because that's

2586
01:33:05,090 --> 01:33:03,480
way too much of a teaser everyone's like

2587
01:33:06,830 --> 01:33:05,100
I know it's true I would hope that

2588
01:33:09,350 --> 01:33:06,840
people would I mean I'm not trying to

2589
01:33:10,550 --> 01:33:09,360
sell my book but I I spent so much time

2590
01:33:13,250 --> 01:33:10,560
in my book

2591
01:33:15,770 --> 01:33:13,260
building up to talk his mediumship was

2592
01:33:18,050 --> 01:33:15,780
the very end of the book right and I

2593
01:33:19,910 --> 01:33:18,060
spent many chapters contextualizing it

2594
01:33:22,129 --> 01:33:19,920
showing the history showing scientific

2595
01:33:24,830 --> 01:33:22,139
studies that have been done on people

2596
01:33:26,709 --> 01:33:24,840
similar to him in the past that were

2597
01:33:29,209 --> 01:33:26,719
absolutely you know

2598
01:33:31,610 --> 01:33:29,219
irrefutable in terms of documenting the

2599
01:33:34,129 --> 01:33:31,620
abilities the same abilities he has that

2600
01:33:36,470 --> 01:33:34,139
have been documented in other people by

2601
01:33:39,290 --> 01:33:36,480
scientists in published books of papers

2602
01:33:40,610 --> 01:33:39,300
I mean I just had to set the context for

2603
01:33:43,070 --> 01:33:40,620
this because it's too weird if you just

2604
01:33:44,930 --> 01:33:43,080
dump it on somebody yeah it's all there

2605
01:33:46,850 --> 01:33:44,940
if you want to read about it and the

2606
01:33:48,169 --> 01:33:46,860
other thing is that Stuart Alexander if

2607
01:33:51,530 --> 01:33:48,179
you go to my website which is

2608
01:33:53,450 --> 01:33:51,540
lesliekane.com and go under surviving

2609
01:33:55,490 --> 01:33:53,460
death

2610
01:33:58,010 --> 01:33:55,500
I think it's called book materials or

2611
01:34:01,310 --> 01:33:58,020
something like that there is a a video

2612
01:34:03,169 --> 01:34:01,320
of Stewart's a two-part fairly lengthy

2613
01:34:05,629 --> 01:34:03,179
video of him describing his whole

2614
01:34:07,250 --> 01:34:05,639
development and journey as a physical

2615
01:34:08,570 --> 01:34:07,260
medium and I would encourage anybody

2616
01:34:11,030 --> 01:34:08,580
who's curious

2617
01:34:13,850 --> 01:34:11,040
to go listen to him and you get a real

2618
01:34:17,510 --> 01:34:13,860
sense of who he is as a person and how

2619
01:34:19,430 --> 01:34:17,520
sincere and genuine he is I mean and you

2620
01:34:21,770 --> 01:34:19,440
it'll you'll also learn directly from

2621
01:34:24,590 --> 01:34:21,780
him how he developed these abilities

2622
01:34:25,729 --> 01:34:24,600
what they're about why he does them you

2623
01:34:28,070 --> 01:34:25,739
know all the things that people will

2624
01:34:29,689 --> 01:34:28,080
want to know but in a nutshell what

2625
01:34:30,950 --> 01:34:29,699
physical meaning ship is and I'm going

2626
01:34:32,689 --> 01:34:30,960
to base that around what I've

2627
01:34:34,330 --> 01:34:32,699
experienced with Stuart Alexander is

2628
01:34:38,030 --> 01:34:34,340
that um

2629
01:34:39,350 --> 01:34:38,040
he's he's he goes into a room with a

2630
01:34:41,930 --> 01:34:39,360
group of people who he works with

2631
01:34:44,149 --> 01:34:41,940
regularly every week and I I've sort of

2632
01:34:45,530 --> 01:34:44,159
become part of this group only I do a

2633
01:34:48,470 --> 01:34:45,540
lot of it through the computer here in

2634
01:34:50,330 --> 01:34:48,480
New York I link into their meetings

2635
01:34:52,129 --> 01:34:50,340
but um I've been to the inside that

2636
01:34:55,250 --> 01:34:52,139
group many many times and experienced

2637
01:34:57,050 --> 01:34:55,260
all these things myself so um and the

2638
01:34:58,970 --> 01:34:57,060
initial thing is you of course eliminate

2639
01:35:00,410 --> 01:34:58,980
any possibility of there being trickery

2640
01:35:03,010 --> 01:35:00,420
and I'm not going to spend time

2641
01:35:05,330 --> 01:35:03,020
describing how I did that but I

2642
01:35:07,790 --> 01:35:05,340
scrutinized everything that was going on

2643
01:35:09,410 --> 01:35:07,800
to make sure there were no no no ways

2644
01:35:11,570 --> 01:35:09,420
that this could be done through cheating

2645
01:35:14,090 --> 01:35:11,580
or trickery

2646
01:35:16,250 --> 01:35:14,100
um and you know if what happens is he

2647
01:35:18,890 --> 01:35:16,260
goes into a trance state where he

2648
01:35:21,229 --> 01:35:18,900
basically leaves he's unconscious and

2649
01:35:23,930 --> 01:35:21,239
then these entities who are supposedly

2650
01:35:26,390 --> 01:35:23,940
beings from the afterlife

2651
01:35:28,010 --> 01:35:26,400
come into his body and make use of his

2652
01:35:30,470 --> 01:35:28,020
vocal cords basically to communicate

2653
01:35:32,629 --> 01:35:30,480
with people in the room and they they um

2654
01:35:34,070 --> 01:35:32,639
perform all these physical miraculous

2655
01:35:35,629 --> 01:35:34,080
physical things that you can witness

2656
01:35:38,330 --> 01:35:35,639
that everybody in the group can witness

2657
01:35:40,550 --> 01:35:38,340
at the same time so it's objective

2658
01:35:42,890 --> 01:35:40,560
and it's in the dark but things are lit

2659
01:35:44,930 --> 01:35:42,900
up enough some things are not in the

2660
01:35:46,490 --> 01:35:44,940
dark so that you can you know you can

2661
01:35:48,110 --> 01:35:46,500
see enough of what's going on depending

2662
01:35:49,970 --> 01:35:48,120
on what the actual experiment is they

2663
01:35:50,930 --> 01:35:49,980
call them experiments and the dark is

2664
01:35:54,649 --> 01:35:50,940
important

2665
01:35:57,229 --> 01:35:54,659
is the thing that could make us go on

2666
01:35:58,970 --> 01:35:57,239
for half an hour about this you know and

2667
01:36:00,530 --> 01:35:58,980
I do go into a lot of this in my book

2668
01:36:02,570 --> 01:36:00,540
and I know people find it suspicious

2669
01:36:04,910 --> 01:36:02,580
that it has to be in the dark but it's

2670
01:36:06,850 --> 01:36:04,920
been the it's just the way he developed

2671
01:36:10,070 --> 01:36:06,860
and a lot of mediums develop

2672
01:36:12,590 --> 01:36:10,080
because there's a substance that is used

2673
01:36:15,410 --> 01:36:12,600
that is exuded from his body to to make

2674
01:36:17,390 --> 01:36:15,420
these physical phenomena happen that is

2675
01:36:19,070 --> 01:36:17,400
extremely sensitive to light

2676
01:36:21,470 --> 01:36:19,080
and that's just the way it is and people

2677
01:36:23,209 --> 01:36:21,480
can say oh it's just so that they can

2678
01:36:25,550 --> 01:36:23,219
make things in the dark you know but

2679
01:36:27,110 --> 01:36:25,560
it's just not the way it is uh and the

2680
01:36:28,669 --> 01:36:27,120
physical substance is that something

2681
01:36:31,070 --> 01:36:28,679
that you can capture and then you could

2682
01:36:32,810 --> 01:36:31,080
measure that or like an energy substance

2683
01:36:35,030 --> 01:36:32,820
I mean people have tried to capture it

2684
01:36:36,770 --> 01:36:35,040
and take it into a lab

2685
01:36:38,450 --> 01:36:36,780
but it kind of disintegrates it's

2686
01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:38,460
basically all that's left is some of the

2687
01:36:42,709 --> 01:36:40,800
saliva from The Medium because it's

2688
01:36:44,450 --> 01:36:42,719
exuded from his mouth

2689
01:36:45,950 --> 01:36:44,460
or it can be exuded from other parts of

2690
01:36:48,290 --> 01:36:45,960
this body but you know it's it's more

2691
01:36:50,330 --> 01:36:48,300
energy but it's it can solidify I mean

2692
01:36:52,910 --> 01:36:50,340
this all sounds like magic and it's like

2693
01:36:55,790 --> 01:36:52,920
magic there's this stuff that's emitted

2694
01:36:58,310 --> 01:36:55,800
can solidify into something solid

2695
01:37:00,470 --> 01:36:58,320
and what it does is it it can move so

2696
01:37:02,990 --> 01:37:00,480
then what you witness as a person in the

2697
01:37:04,370 --> 01:37:03,000
room is an object

2698
01:37:05,990 --> 01:37:04,380
um moving around the room you witness

2699
01:37:08,330 --> 01:37:06,000
all kinds of levitation and physical

2700
01:37:10,010 --> 01:37:08,340
objects moving around the room because

2701
01:37:12,410 --> 01:37:10,020
this substance is attaching themselves

2702
01:37:14,030 --> 01:37:12,420
to it but you don't see the substance so

2703
01:37:16,010 --> 01:37:14,040
you're witnessing there's this thing

2704
01:37:17,930 --> 01:37:16,020
called a trumpet which is a

2705
01:37:19,430 --> 01:37:17,940
cone-shaped object which is a tradition

2706
01:37:21,590 --> 01:37:19,440
they use in physical mediumship and it's

2707
01:37:22,970 --> 01:37:21,600
got this illuminated band around the end

2708
01:37:24,530 --> 01:37:22,980
of it so that even though you're in the

2709
01:37:26,750 --> 01:37:24,540
dark you can see it

2710
01:37:29,090 --> 01:37:26,760
and you can watch this thing go up into

2711
01:37:30,830 --> 01:37:29,100
the sky and fly all over the room and

2712
01:37:33,530 --> 01:37:30,840
bang on the walls and go to the ceiling

2713
01:37:34,729 --> 01:37:33,540
and touch you right in a perfect spot in

2714
01:37:37,970 --> 01:37:34,739
your forehead

2715
01:37:39,770 --> 01:37:37,980
answer you know respond to requests and

2716
01:37:41,870 --> 01:37:39,780
move around and that's one thing is this

2717
01:37:44,629 --> 01:37:41,880
levitation of this object the trumpet

2718
01:37:46,729 --> 01:37:44,639
responds to request it will respond like

2719
01:37:48,350 --> 01:37:46,739
if you say it'll it'll yeah and

2720
01:37:51,830 --> 01:37:48,360
sometimes a voice will speak through the

2721
01:37:54,470 --> 01:37:51,840
trumpet a disembodied voice I've heard

2722
01:37:57,050 --> 01:37:54,480
that numerous times I mean you cannot

2723
01:37:58,550 --> 01:37:57,060
wrap your mind around this yeah I see

2724
01:38:01,370 --> 01:37:58,560
why you're saying now that several

2725
01:38:02,629 --> 01:38:01,380
chapters lead up to this exactly because

2726
01:38:04,250 --> 01:38:02,639
it's like people think this is

2727
01:38:06,470 --> 01:38:04,260
completely nuts and it's very hard for

2728
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:06,480
me to talk about because of that it's so

2729
01:38:10,610 --> 01:38:08,880
sensitive and I know that it's real

2730
01:38:12,169 --> 01:38:10,620
because I've I've done my due diligence

2731
01:38:13,729 --> 01:38:12,179
and I've been involved with it for seven

2732
01:38:16,430 --> 01:38:13,739
years or something and I know everybody

2733
01:38:18,410 --> 01:38:16,440
in that group very well and I know

2734
01:38:19,850 --> 01:38:18,420
Stuart very well

2735
01:38:21,830 --> 01:38:19,860
um and I you know there's absolutely

2736
01:38:23,810 --> 01:38:21,840
it's real that's without question it's

2737
01:38:25,129 --> 01:38:23,820
been witnessed by hundreds of people not

2738
01:38:27,649 --> 01:38:25,139
just me

2739
01:38:29,629 --> 01:38:27,659
um over the years you know so but it's

2740
01:38:31,970 --> 01:38:29,639
very I find it hard to talk about and I

2741
01:38:34,790 --> 01:38:31,980
I gave a uh I was invited to give a talk

2742
01:38:36,530 --> 01:38:34,800
about this at Rice University last year

2743
01:38:39,590 --> 01:38:36,540
at their archives of the impossible

2744
01:38:41,750 --> 01:38:39,600
conference who's held by Jeffrey [\h__\h]

2745
01:38:43,729 --> 01:38:41,760
a professor there and I talked about

2746
01:38:45,169 --> 01:38:43,739
this because he asked me to he asked me

2747
01:38:47,390 --> 01:38:45,179
to talk about this

2748
01:38:49,850 --> 01:38:47,400
because Stuart Alexander's archives are

2749
01:38:52,550 --> 01:38:49,860
now with the uh Rice University

2750
01:38:54,709 --> 01:38:52,560
collection all his archives have been

2751
01:38:57,709 --> 01:38:54,719
donated with my help to Rice

2752
01:38:59,330 --> 01:38:57,719
and it was very very difficult for me to

2753
01:39:00,950 --> 01:38:59,340
talk about this and if people want they

2754
01:39:02,270 --> 01:39:00,960
can go and look at the talk I gave and

2755
01:39:05,450 --> 01:39:02,280
that's another way you can get a sense

2756
01:39:08,390 --> 01:39:05,460
of seriousness of this and the history

2757
01:39:11,510 --> 01:39:08,400
of it I I was so nervous doing it Kurt

2758
01:39:13,129 --> 01:39:11,520
it's so sensitive it's very personal and

2759
01:39:15,649 --> 01:39:13,139
very strange and hard for people to

2760
01:39:17,689 --> 01:39:15,659
accept as real for good reason

2761
01:39:19,850 --> 01:39:17,699
so I just find it hard to talk about

2762
01:39:22,189 --> 01:39:19,860
that you know for that reason but I

2763
01:39:23,750 --> 01:39:22,199
you'll see that when I if you watch this

2764
01:39:26,330 --> 01:39:23,760
talk I gave that I was pretty nervous

2765
01:39:27,830 --> 01:39:26,340
about it and I acknowledge that but you

2766
01:39:30,229 --> 01:39:27,840
know there's also things like the

2767
01:39:33,890 --> 01:39:30,239
materializations of things happen

2768
01:39:36,229 --> 01:39:33,900
so you know I have experienced numerous

2769
01:39:37,490 --> 01:39:36,239
times as of others in the light you can

2770
01:39:40,850 --> 01:39:37,500
see this

2771
01:39:43,910 --> 01:39:40,860
a hand materialized out of nothing

2772
01:39:45,770 --> 01:39:43,920
on a on a table and I was able to touch

2773
01:39:47,750 --> 01:39:45,780
this materialized hand

2774
01:39:49,189 --> 01:39:47,760
and then

2775
01:39:51,590 --> 01:39:49,199
so you know what do you want to make of

2776
01:39:53,629 --> 01:39:51,600
that uh and what is the hand supposed to

2777
01:39:55,970 --> 01:39:53,639
represent someone who is no longer with

2778
01:39:59,270 --> 01:39:55,980
us yeah it's it's it's

2779
01:40:01,490 --> 01:39:59,280
um one of the spirit people right that's

2780
01:40:03,169 --> 01:40:01,500
what we call them for lack of a better

2781
01:40:04,209 --> 01:40:03,179
word the spirit people who works through

2782
01:40:06,970 --> 01:40:04,219
Stuart

2783
01:40:09,290 --> 01:40:06,980
uh is actually

2784
01:40:10,850 --> 01:40:09,300
materializing his own hand

2785
01:40:12,709 --> 01:40:10,860
by

2786
01:40:14,450 --> 01:40:12,719
placing it in I mean the way he

2787
01:40:17,149 --> 01:40:14,460
describes it is he's just slowing down

2788
01:40:19,189 --> 01:40:17,159
his vibration enough within the

2789
01:40:21,770 --> 01:40:19,199
substance that's exuded from the from

2790
01:40:23,270 --> 01:40:21,780
the uh medium which is called ectoplasm

2791
01:40:24,229 --> 01:40:23,280
and people probably laugh when they hear

2792
01:40:27,890 --> 01:40:24,239
that word

2793
01:40:29,930 --> 01:40:27,900
the spirit has a high vibration

2794
01:40:31,129 --> 01:40:29,940
well the way they describe it think it I

2795
01:40:32,750 --> 01:40:31,139
can't answer all these questions of

2796
01:40:33,950 --> 01:40:32,760
course of course I lost the threat of

2797
01:40:36,169 --> 01:40:33,960
the sentence it was a complicated

2798
01:40:39,850 --> 01:40:36,179
sentence so wait the spirit has a high

2799
01:40:43,010 --> 01:40:39,860
vibration they slow it down and they use

2800
01:40:45,290 --> 01:40:43,020
a substance to slow themselves down or a

2801
01:40:47,270 --> 01:40:45,300
substance is given off as a result but

2802
01:40:48,830 --> 01:40:47,280
they're a theoric hand into it I mean

2803
01:40:51,649 --> 01:40:48,840
this is how you know again again I'm

2804
01:40:53,209 --> 01:40:51,659
just telling you what I was sure I I so

2805
01:40:55,189 --> 01:40:53,219
they have to lower they have to lower

2806
01:40:56,810 --> 01:40:55,199
their vibration to just be in our

2807
01:40:59,390 --> 01:40:56,820
physical world and manifest physically

2808
01:41:02,149 --> 01:40:59,400
to Manifest this hand so they somehow

2809
01:41:04,370 --> 01:41:02,159
there's an etheric hand there's a a

2810
01:41:07,550 --> 01:41:04,380
non-physical hand that exists

2811
01:41:08,890 --> 01:41:07,560
and that non-physicalthera can is placed

2812
01:41:11,930 --> 01:41:08,900
inside this

2813
01:41:15,350 --> 01:41:11,940
materials stuff called ectoplasm

2814
01:41:17,629 --> 01:41:15,360
and then by slowing it by by somehow

2815
01:41:20,810 --> 01:41:17,639
he's able to materialize that hand I

2816
01:41:22,669 --> 01:41:20,820
mean I don't know how I I'm sure all I

2817
01:41:24,709 --> 01:41:22,679
know is I've witnessed it numerous times

2818
01:41:27,050 --> 01:41:24,719
on so of many other people

2819
01:41:28,610 --> 01:41:27,060
um and it's one of it is probably the

2820
01:41:30,590 --> 01:41:28,620
most mind-blowing experience I've ever

2821
01:41:34,310 --> 01:41:30,600
had in my life

2822
01:41:35,810 --> 01:41:34,320
you know uh and but it's documented it's

2823
01:41:38,570 --> 01:41:35,820
been written about but you know it's

2824
01:41:40,370 --> 01:41:38,580
it's not it would never satisfy a

2825
01:41:42,470 --> 01:41:40,380
scientist unless they went in that room

2826
01:41:44,510 --> 01:41:42,480
and experience it for themselves

2827
01:41:45,890 --> 01:41:44,520
you know a scientist just hearing me say

2828
01:41:47,090 --> 01:41:45,900
that is going to think it's ridiculous

2829
01:41:48,709 --> 01:41:47,100
but

2830
01:41:50,330 --> 01:41:48,719
if they go in that room and experience

2831
01:41:52,370 --> 01:41:50,340
Earth themselves and have and you know

2832
01:41:55,910 --> 01:41:52,380
can can satisfy themselves that there's

2833
01:41:57,590 --> 01:41:55,920
no trickery going on uh

2834
01:41:58,490 --> 01:41:57,600
you're stuck with this how does it

2835
01:42:00,470 --> 01:41:58,500
happen

2836
01:42:03,129 --> 01:42:00,480
you said something interesting that it's

2837
01:42:05,030 --> 01:42:03,139
one of the most interesting or

2838
01:42:07,070 --> 01:42:05,040
mind-blowing experiences of your life

2839
01:42:09,890 --> 01:42:07,080
I'm like that's one of the most that

2840
01:42:12,169 --> 01:42:09,900
would be top absolute Bar None can you

2841
01:42:14,450 --> 01:42:12,179
give me two others that you haven't

2842
01:42:16,970 --> 01:42:14,460
named so far you're really putting me on

2843
01:42:19,250 --> 01:42:16,980
the spot here Kurt this is not this kind

2844
01:42:20,629 --> 01:42:19,260
of stuff I usually talk about and I hope

2845
01:42:24,050 --> 01:42:20,639
you don't get asked these sorts of

2846
01:42:25,669 --> 01:42:24,060
questions often uh yeah but I you know

2847
01:42:27,950 --> 01:42:25,679
I'm hesitant to talk about them too much

2848
01:42:30,109 --> 01:42:27,960
I'm a you know

2849
01:42:32,390 --> 01:42:30,119
yeah whatever you're comfortable with

2850
01:42:33,709 --> 01:42:32,400
we'll come back to that I'm gonna gonna

2851
01:42:35,990 --> 01:42:33,719
give you some time to get comfortable

2852
01:42:37,790 --> 01:42:36,000
and I'll ask you one more time the hand

2853
01:42:40,850 --> 01:42:37,800
were you able to see the color of the

2854
01:42:42,470 --> 01:42:40,860
hand was it more like a dead hand was it

2855
01:42:44,450 --> 01:42:42,480
a white person's hand was it a brown

2856
01:42:47,270 --> 01:42:44,460
person's hand and were the nails grown

2857
01:42:49,310 --> 01:42:47,280
or are they manicured I'll explain it so

2858
01:42:51,410 --> 01:42:49,320
what happens is the light it's actually

2859
01:42:53,930 --> 01:42:51,420
a silhouette that you see so there's a

2860
01:42:56,510 --> 01:42:53,940
table that has a light underneath it

2861
01:42:58,070 --> 01:42:56,520
with a red cloth over it so there's a

2862
01:42:58,970 --> 01:42:58,080
red light that's coming up from the

2863
01:43:04,609 --> 01:42:58,980
table

2864
01:43:06,770 --> 01:43:04,619
so what you you can see is the um out

2865
01:43:08,209 --> 01:43:06,780
you know the it's like a silhouette I

2866
01:43:10,790 --> 01:43:08,219
mean you see the physical hand you see

2867
01:43:12,590 --> 01:43:10,800
it actually form and it makes a fist and

2868
01:43:14,270 --> 01:43:12,600
bangs on the table right when it forms

2869
01:43:15,770 --> 01:43:14,280
so you know it's physical because you

2870
01:43:17,990 --> 01:43:15,780
can hear that Bang

2871
01:43:19,910 --> 01:43:18,000
and you can and but you can't and and

2872
01:43:21,590 --> 01:43:19,920
you can't see all the details of it

2873
01:43:22,970 --> 01:43:21,600
because it's a silhouette because any

2874
01:43:24,470 --> 01:43:22,980
more light if there's too much light

2875
01:43:26,689 --> 01:43:24,480
it's not going to be they won't be able

2876
01:43:28,669 --> 01:43:26,699
to do it but when you touch the hand

2877
01:43:30,050 --> 01:43:28,679
yeah it has to be a certain amount of

2878
01:43:32,270 --> 01:43:30,060
Darkness but there's enough light here

2879
01:43:35,209 --> 01:43:32,280
that you can see it

2880
01:43:36,770 --> 01:43:35,219
um and then when you touch it if you

2881
01:43:38,750 --> 01:43:36,780
feel everything I mean you've it's

2882
01:43:41,209 --> 01:43:38,760
exactly you feel the fingernails the

2883
01:43:43,790 --> 01:43:41,219
knuckles even the warmth of a hand or no

2884
01:43:46,070 --> 01:43:43,800
yeah so the way I would describe it to

2885
01:43:50,750 --> 01:43:46,080
in what what I experienced when I held

2886
01:43:53,209 --> 01:43:50,760
that hand was that it was way softer

2887
01:43:56,030 --> 01:43:53,219
than a normal man's hand the skin felt

2888
01:43:58,490 --> 01:43:56,040
like a baby's skin it was very very soft

2889
01:44:00,229 --> 01:43:58,500
and it was also very very warm

2890
01:44:02,510 --> 01:44:00,239
warmer than you would normally

2891
01:44:03,470 --> 01:44:02,520
experience a hand and look pretty large

2892
01:44:05,870 --> 01:44:03,480
too

2893
01:44:07,430 --> 01:44:05,880
but I have a small hand so comparison to

2894
01:44:09,770 --> 01:44:07,440
my hand it wasn't pretty large but the

2895
01:44:11,330 --> 01:44:09,780
the warmth of it and the softness of the

2896
01:44:13,970 --> 01:44:11,340
skin were really striking to me but

2897
01:44:16,250 --> 01:44:13,980
everything else the way it moved the way

2898
01:44:18,830 --> 01:44:16,260
it fell the fingernails the knuckles all

2899
01:44:21,770 --> 01:44:18,840
the features of her normal it felt just

2900
01:44:23,810 --> 01:44:21,780
like a human hand I mean it it was um

2901
01:44:27,050 --> 01:44:23,820
you know a materialized hand

2902
01:44:28,669 --> 01:44:27,060
and it was physical and you know so but

2903
01:44:31,850 --> 01:44:28,679
I couldn't actually see the color of it

2904
01:44:33,530 --> 01:44:31,860
because of the silhouette effect

2905
01:44:35,990 --> 01:44:33,540
yeah

2906
01:44:38,030 --> 01:44:36,000
so about the let's just say one other

2907
01:44:40,070 --> 01:44:38,040
incident in your life that's more on the

2908
01:44:41,570 --> 01:44:40,080
extraordinary end that you're

2909
01:44:43,970 --> 01:44:41,580
comfortable speaking about I'd rather

2910
01:44:46,189 --> 01:44:43,980
have people read it just because it's so

2911
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:46,199
hard to talk about out of context

2912
01:44:51,470 --> 01:44:48,000
I might you know

2913
01:44:53,390 --> 01:44:51,480
I did witness an apparition that

2914
01:44:55,550 --> 01:44:53,400
that I read about in my book that I

2915
01:44:57,290 --> 01:44:55,560
believe might have been my rep deceased

2916
01:44:58,790 --> 01:44:57,300
brother I don't know but it was very

2917
01:45:01,189 --> 01:44:58,800
very close to my bed and it was

2918
01:45:04,250 --> 01:45:01,199
absolutely mind-blowing

2919
01:45:05,990 --> 01:45:04,260
and I was not hadn't been drinking I was

2920
01:45:07,250 --> 01:45:06,000
wide awake you know that was an amazing

2921
01:45:10,510 --> 01:45:07,260
experience

2922
01:45:14,149 --> 01:45:10,520
um were you scared uh terrified

2923
01:45:15,350 --> 01:45:14,159
terrified yeah it was a it was basically

2924
01:45:19,370 --> 01:45:15,360
a black

2925
01:45:21,590 --> 01:45:19,380
shape of a person that was very close to

2926
01:45:22,790 --> 01:45:21,600
my bed I could have touched it you know

2927
01:45:24,410 --> 01:45:22,800
it was during the night it was a full

2928
01:45:26,390 --> 01:45:24,420
moon so there was enough light coming in

2929
01:45:29,330 --> 01:45:26,400
the room that I could see it

2930
01:45:31,129 --> 01:45:29,340
I was and I was so afraid that I really

2931
01:45:33,109 --> 01:45:31,139
couldn't move at first I thought it was

2932
01:45:34,669 --> 01:45:33,119
an intruder in the room

2933
01:45:37,850 --> 01:45:34,679
um

2934
01:45:39,530 --> 01:45:37,860
uh and then I or I thought maybe it was

2935
01:45:40,850 --> 01:45:39,540
one of my family members but then I I

2936
01:45:42,470 --> 01:45:40,860
knew it was I just went through these

2937
01:45:44,990 --> 01:45:42,480
things in my mind and then

2938
01:45:46,010 --> 01:45:45,000
I watched it kind of uh disintegrate it

2939
01:45:47,570 --> 01:45:46,020
just

2940
01:45:49,550 --> 01:45:47,580
turned into these little silver

2941
01:45:52,729 --> 01:45:49,560
particles

2942
01:45:55,010 --> 01:45:52,739
and disappeared and

2943
01:45:57,530 --> 01:45:55,020
uh yeah I mean it was so clearly

2944
01:46:00,530 --> 01:45:57,540
something otherworldly that it was just

2945
01:46:02,209 --> 01:46:00,540
mind I was absolutely convincing

2946
01:46:04,129 --> 01:46:02,219
convinced that this was something

2947
01:46:06,229 --> 01:46:04,139
otherworldly it was like there's no

2948
01:46:07,910 --> 01:46:06,239
other way to explain it because I

2949
01:46:10,430 --> 01:46:07,920
watched it turn into silver particles

2950
01:46:12,950 --> 01:46:10,440
and then dissolve for my eyes and I know

2951
01:46:15,410 --> 01:46:12,960
it was solid because the pictures on the

2952
01:46:17,570 --> 01:46:15,420
wall behind it were blocked out by the

2953
01:46:20,750 --> 01:46:17,580
shape of this thing

2954
01:46:22,550 --> 01:46:20,760
but it was very frightening to me

2955
01:46:24,890 --> 01:46:22,560
very frightening

2956
01:46:26,030 --> 01:46:24,900
afterward I imagined you just turned on

2957
01:46:28,370 --> 01:46:26,040
the lights and you weren't able to sleep

2958
01:46:30,109 --> 01:46:28,380
for a while yeah I mean yeah that's

2959
01:46:31,910 --> 01:46:30,119
exactly what I write about that too I

2960
01:46:34,689 --> 01:46:31,920
mean I I think I lay in that bed for

2961
01:46:38,270 --> 01:46:34,699
like 40 minutes before I could even move

2962
01:46:39,770 --> 01:46:38,280
okay I was just so shocked yeah I don't

2963
01:46:41,810 --> 01:46:39,780
know you know looking back at me I'm

2964
01:46:43,250 --> 01:46:41,820
thinking why was I so frightened I wish

2965
01:46:45,229 --> 01:46:43,260
I had like number one tried to

2966
01:46:47,870 --> 01:46:45,239
communicate with it or number two grab

2967
01:46:50,450 --> 01:46:47,880
my phone you know and taking a picture I

2968
01:46:52,609 --> 01:46:50,460
don't know I I regret that I was so

2969
01:46:53,570 --> 01:46:52,619
afraid

2970
01:46:55,790 --> 01:46:53,580
um

2971
01:46:57,770 --> 01:46:55,800
but it's just a shocking thing to see

2972
01:47:00,530 --> 01:46:57,780
somebody some form standing right by

2973
01:47:03,290 --> 01:47:00,540
your bed and very close you know

2974
01:47:04,970 --> 01:47:03,300
uh so I I kind of wish I'd handle it

2975
01:47:06,890 --> 01:47:04,980
differently but I I just was kind of

2976
01:47:09,169 --> 01:47:06,900
Frozen with the shock of it and then I

2977
01:47:11,209 --> 01:47:09,179
did put on the light and

2978
01:47:12,590 --> 01:47:11,219
I as I recall I went into another room

2979
01:47:14,510 --> 01:47:12,600
to sleep and I don't think I really

2980
01:47:17,270 --> 01:47:14,520
slept much the whole night

2981
01:47:21,590 --> 01:47:18,890
I mean that was different because in the

2982
01:47:23,149 --> 01:47:21,600
Stuart Alexander Seance room it's a

2983
01:47:25,310 --> 01:47:23,159
controlled environment where you're with

2984
01:47:26,750 --> 01:47:25,320
other people and you're choosing for

2985
01:47:27,950 --> 01:47:26,760
these these manifestations you know

2986
01:47:29,689 --> 01:47:27,960
they're gonna happen and you want them

2987
01:47:31,870 --> 01:47:29,699
to happen and everything's safe and

2988
01:47:34,850 --> 01:47:31,880
predictable

2989
01:47:36,470 --> 01:47:34,860
uh and so you know you go in and over

2990
01:47:39,410 --> 01:47:36,480
and over again you can witness the same

2991
01:47:41,390 --> 01:47:39,420
things uh and at a designated time and

2992
01:47:43,010 --> 01:47:41,400
place but this was something that just

2993
01:47:45,109 --> 01:47:43,020
came out of the blue

2994
01:47:47,149 --> 01:47:45,119
uh and so that's why it was so much more

2995
01:47:48,229 --> 01:47:47,159
it was shocking you know I wasn't asking

2996
01:47:50,149 --> 01:47:48,239
for it

2997
01:47:52,910 --> 01:47:50,159
um although I was

2998
01:47:56,510 --> 01:47:52,920
always looking for proof of some kind of

2999
01:47:59,030 --> 01:47:56,520
afterlife at that time but um anyway

3000
01:48:01,430 --> 01:47:59,040
that was a shocking experience

3001
01:48:03,890 --> 01:48:01,440
and you know again it's hard to talk

3002
01:48:05,870 --> 01:48:03,900
about out of context but I'm doing it

3003
01:48:07,970 --> 01:48:05,880
anyway Kurt because

3004
01:48:10,970 --> 01:48:07,980
you're asking interesting questions what

3005
01:48:12,410 --> 01:48:10,980
can I do yeah I appreciate your candor I

3006
01:48:14,689 --> 01:48:12,420
appreciate that even when I ask a

3007
01:48:17,270 --> 01:48:14,699
question that I know or hope that you

3008
01:48:19,970 --> 01:48:17,280
can sense that I'm asking it from a

3009
01:48:22,609 --> 01:48:19,980
place of curiosity and not a place of

3010
01:48:24,530 --> 01:48:22,619
disregard or discounting or repudiation

3011
01:48:26,689 --> 01:48:24,540
so if I say like oh what color was the

3012
01:48:28,070 --> 01:48:26,699
hand I'm not trying to trip you up at

3013
01:48:30,229 --> 01:48:28,080
all

3014
01:48:32,209 --> 01:48:30,239
I didn't feel that way if I felt that

3015
01:48:34,189 --> 01:48:32,219
way I wouldn't I wouldn't respond so no

3016
01:48:36,890 --> 01:48:34,199
I feel your curiosity and I'm hoping

3017
01:48:38,209 --> 01:48:36,900
that the listeners will come from that

3018
01:48:40,669 --> 01:48:38,219
same place

3019
01:48:43,070 --> 01:48:40,679
and you know if they feel skeptical

3020
01:48:44,450 --> 01:48:43,080
which is completely understandable I

3021
01:48:46,550 --> 01:48:44,460
again encourage them to look at my book

3022
01:48:49,189 --> 01:48:46,560
or look at the video of Stuart Alexander

3023
01:48:51,229 --> 01:48:49,199
on my website it's a very well produced

3024
01:48:53,629 --> 01:48:51,239
video it's really fascinating

3025
01:48:55,729 --> 01:48:53,639
and so Matt might you know for those

3026
01:48:57,350 --> 01:48:55,739
that are interested

3027
01:49:00,290 --> 01:48:57,360
um and I just can't deny my own

3028
01:49:01,790 --> 01:49:00,300
experience I mean I um you know I I'm

3029
01:49:03,590 --> 01:49:01,800
talking about it because it's in my book

3030
01:49:07,850 --> 01:49:03,600
so

3031
01:49:10,370 --> 01:49:07,860
there experiences you had to leave out

3032
01:49:12,470 --> 01:49:10,380
of the book I would say at the time I

3033
01:49:14,090 --> 01:49:12,480
mean I I thought carefully about whether

3034
01:49:15,830 --> 01:49:14,100
I should even include my own personal

3035
01:49:18,530 --> 01:49:15,840
experiences in this book should it just

3036
01:49:20,570 --> 01:49:18,540
be a more sort of sciency journalistic

3037
01:49:22,970 --> 01:49:20,580
research ebook you know

3038
01:49:25,010 --> 01:49:22,980
and I I knew that it was really risky

3039
01:49:28,250 --> 01:49:25,020
for me to do that

3040
01:49:32,209 --> 01:49:28,260
um but I thought it's not honest if I

3041
01:49:35,450 --> 01:49:32,219
don't because these experiences

3042
01:49:37,550 --> 01:49:35,460
impacted my perception of what I was

3043
01:49:38,570 --> 01:49:37,560
writing about and they were part of the

3044
01:49:40,370 --> 01:49:38,580
journey and I thought they'd be

3045
01:49:43,430 --> 01:49:40,380
interesting to people

3046
01:49:44,750 --> 01:49:43,440
and so I just felt like and I I talk

3047
01:49:46,070 --> 01:49:44,760
about this in the beginning of my book

3048
01:49:47,390 --> 01:49:46,080
that it wouldn't have been honest for me

3049
01:49:49,250 --> 01:49:47,400
to pretend that none of these things

3050
01:49:51,050 --> 01:49:49,260
happened to me and so I just decided I'm

3051
01:49:52,729 --> 01:49:51,060
going to jump off that cliff and and do

3052
01:49:54,470 --> 01:49:52,739
it

3053
01:49:56,030 --> 01:49:54,480
um at this point you know they're think

3054
01:49:58,129 --> 01:49:56,040
of all the people who have come out

3055
01:50:01,250 --> 01:49:58,139
talking about their UFO Abduction

3056
01:50:03,109 --> 01:50:01,260
experiences or paranormal encounters

3057
01:50:05,450 --> 01:50:03,119
they've had with things you know they've

3058
01:50:07,970 --> 01:50:05,460
all taken a risk

3059
01:50:10,129 --> 01:50:07,980
um people who you know I've written

3060
01:50:12,050 --> 01:50:10,139
research books like someone like Robert

3061
01:50:13,669 --> 01:50:12,060
Hastings who wrote the book UFOs and

3062
01:50:16,250 --> 01:50:13,679
nukes so nobody would have ever imagined

3063
01:50:18,709 --> 01:50:16,260
that he was an experiencer himself

3064
01:50:20,810 --> 01:50:18,719
so you know I I

3065
01:50:23,570 --> 01:50:20,820
uh people do that people have done that

3066
01:50:24,109 --> 01:50:23,580
and I'm not going to be any different

3067
01:50:25,850 --> 01:50:24,119
um

3068
01:50:29,990 --> 01:50:25,860
so

3069
01:50:32,510 --> 01:50:30,000
it have been risky for you to include

3070
01:50:34,790 --> 01:50:32,520
some of your own personal testimony just

3071
01:50:37,310 --> 01:50:34,800
because you know people think they don't

3072
01:50:39,109 --> 01:50:37,320
I don't know it's good because it's

3073
01:50:41,030 --> 01:50:39,119
strange stuff

3074
01:50:43,010 --> 01:50:41,040
you know and they might not believe it

3075
01:50:45,350 --> 01:50:43,020
or they might think I'm I've lost my

3076
01:50:47,030 --> 01:50:45,360
mind or I'm uh okay so they would think

3077
01:50:49,129 --> 01:50:47,040
that you're biased

3078
01:50:51,290 --> 01:50:49,139
well not so much bias as that I'm just

3079
01:50:52,970 --> 01:50:51,300
sort of wacky

3080
01:50:54,950 --> 01:50:52,980
you know they're nothing just not going

3081
01:50:56,209 --> 01:50:54,960
to be able to believe this

3082
01:50:59,330 --> 01:50:56,219
um and they're going to think well she's

3083
01:51:03,050 --> 01:50:59,340
I mean she's really lost it you know

3084
01:51:06,169 --> 01:51:03,060
I thought she was like this journalist

3085
01:51:08,090 --> 01:51:06,179
um but I'm also a human being who's that

3086
01:51:09,530 --> 01:51:08,100
experiences because when you really dive

3087
01:51:12,470 --> 01:51:09,540
into something

3088
01:51:14,330 --> 01:51:12,480
you might end up having experiences you

3089
01:51:17,030 --> 01:51:14,340
know I want to do it originally I wanted

3090
01:51:18,709 --> 01:51:17,040
to test mediumship right I wanted to see

3091
01:51:20,390 --> 01:51:18,719
is there anything to me is there any

3092
01:51:22,430 --> 01:51:20,400
thing as a medium that can really do

3093
01:51:24,229 --> 01:51:22,440
what they say they can do

3094
01:51:26,990 --> 01:51:24,239
okay I wanted to

3095
01:51:29,270 --> 01:51:27,000
study that for my book as a journalist

3096
01:51:31,010 --> 01:51:29,280
so I found out who some of the absolute

3097
01:51:32,330 --> 01:51:31,020
best mediums were and I'm not talking

3098
01:51:34,550 --> 01:51:32,340
about Steward I'm talking about mental

3099
01:51:37,550 --> 01:51:34,560
mediumship we talked about earlier yeah

3100
01:51:39,530 --> 01:51:37,560
and I taped the session not knowing for

3101
01:51:41,330 --> 01:51:39,540
a second if any of it would mean

3102
01:51:43,310 --> 01:51:41,340
anything I thought it might be complete

3103
01:51:47,629 --> 01:51:43,320
baloney you know

3104
01:51:48,290 --> 01:51:47,639
and I was so shocked by what happened

3105
01:51:50,810 --> 01:51:48,300
um

3106
01:51:53,629 --> 01:51:50,820
you know so it turned out to be a

3107
01:51:56,570 --> 01:51:53,639
personal experience for me right so and

3108
01:51:59,450 --> 01:51:56,580
but it was kind of built into my

3109
01:52:01,609 --> 01:51:59,460
exploration and desire to study it

3110
01:52:04,010 --> 01:52:01,619
and sometimes you can't separate them

3111
01:52:06,050 --> 01:52:04,020
out you know you can't separate it and

3112
01:52:08,030 --> 01:52:06,060
so I tried to be as analytical as I

3113
01:52:09,590 --> 01:52:08,040
could about those readings that I had

3114
01:52:11,030 --> 01:52:09,600
but they were I'm not going to pretend

3115
01:52:13,970 --> 01:52:11,040
that they didn't have a profoundly

3116
01:52:16,129 --> 01:52:13,980
personal impact on me and so saying you

3117
01:52:18,830 --> 01:52:16,139
know same thing when I'm I'm writing

3118
01:52:20,990 --> 01:52:18,840
about after death Communications

3119
01:52:23,270 --> 01:52:21,000
studies that have done on them I have

3120
01:52:25,370 --> 01:52:23,280
some other very very credible people in

3121
01:52:28,010 --> 01:52:25,380
the in the book who had amazing after

3122
01:52:29,330 --> 01:52:28,020
death Communications way more evidential

3123
01:52:31,370 --> 01:52:29,340
than mine

3124
01:52:34,970 --> 01:52:31,380
who I write about they're willing to put

3125
01:52:36,830 --> 01:52:34,980
themselves on the line so

3126
01:52:38,390 --> 01:52:36,840
um but you know I think it was more of

3127
01:52:39,890 --> 01:52:38,400
fear that

3128
01:52:41,810 --> 01:52:39,900
you know I just wouldn't be taken

3129
01:52:44,090 --> 01:52:41,820
seriously by people

3130
01:52:46,550 --> 01:52:44,100
and so but you know there are a lot of

3131
01:52:48,229 --> 01:52:46,560
people that feel the opposite way and a

3132
01:52:50,930 --> 01:52:48,239
lot of people who watch the series on

3133
01:52:53,090 --> 01:52:50,940
Netflix have are very grateful because

3134
01:52:54,890 --> 01:52:53,100
they feel that that that this material

3135
01:52:56,810 --> 01:52:54,900
opens a door for them to feel safe to

3136
01:52:58,910 --> 01:52:56,820
talk about things they never felt safe

3137
01:53:01,189 --> 01:52:58,920
to talk about before and if I can do

3138
01:53:02,510 --> 01:53:01,199
that for somebody it's all worth it I

3139
01:53:05,030 --> 01:53:02,520
know I've done that for a lot of people

3140
01:53:07,490 --> 01:53:05,040
in this situation great is there

3141
01:53:09,649 --> 01:53:07,500
something about the skeptic mindset like

3142
01:53:11,570 --> 01:53:09,659
let's say the Randy Randy James or James

3143
01:53:13,910 --> 01:53:11,580
Randy is there something about their

3144
01:53:15,709 --> 01:53:13,920
mindset that would make it such that the

3145
01:53:18,169 --> 01:53:15,719
phenomenon and maybe I shouldn't call it

3146
01:53:21,050 --> 01:53:18,179
that apparitions or mediumship physical

3147
01:53:23,149 --> 01:53:21,060
medium is less likely to occur in their

3148
01:53:24,649 --> 01:53:23,159
presence I mean that's a good question I

3149
01:53:26,570 --> 01:53:24,659
don't I don't know if that would be true

3150
01:53:28,790 --> 01:53:26,580
with mental mediumship I mean if they

3151
01:53:31,850 --> 01:53:28,800
lost someone they loved and they were

3152
01:53:34,250 --> 01:53:31,860
grieving and they felt a genuine desire

3153
01:53:37,490 --> 01:53:34,260
to contact that person

3154
01:53:38,990 --> 01:53:37,500
I you know but if I just don't know I

3155
01:53:41,510 --> 01:53:39,000
mean it'd be an interesting experiment

3156
01:53:44,090 --> 01:53:41,520
if they went into a reading with

3157
01:53:46,609 --> 01:53:44,100
you know hostility and doubt and

3158
01:53:49,669 --> 01:53:46,619
disbelief and a desire to prove that it

3159
01:53:52,550 --> 01:53:49,679
was all fake maybe nothing would happen

3160
01:53:54,649 --> 01:53:52,560
for them I don't know I I think in the

3161
01:53:56,750 --> 01:53:54,659
situation with Stuart it would have an

3162
01:53:58,729 --> 01:53:56,760
impact and he's talked about that

3163
01:54:01,129 --> 01:53:58,739
when somebody is in there with a very

3164
01:54:02,750 --> 01:54:01,139
negative attitude it can impact it's a

3165
01:54:05,629 --> 01:54:02,760
very sensitive environment all about

3166
01:54:08,570 --> 01:54:05,639
energies of people and the energies that

3167
01:54:10,910 --> 01:54:08,580
are that come in play in that room uh

3168
01:54:12,530 --> 01:54:10,920
and there's a Harmony among everybody

3169
01:54:14,510 --> 01:54:12,540
sitting in that room that's really

3170
01:54:16,729 --> 01:54:14,520
profound and the you know that there's a

3171
01:54:18,229 --> 01:54:16,739
peace and a love and a Harmony you feel

3172
01:54:20,090 --> 01:54:18,239
like you're entering into another world

3173
01:54:22,609 --> 01:54:20,100
when you go in there if there were

3174
01:54:25,250 --> 01:54:22,619
people in there that were the opposite

3175
01:54:27,169 --> 01:54:25,260
who were hostile and you know out to

3176
01:54:29,090 --> 01:54:27,179
prove that this was funny I don't know

3177
01:54:31,370 --> 01:54:29,100
if that would affect the energy of the

3178
01:54:33,169 --> 01:54:31,380
room and affect the ability of Stuart to

3179
01:54:35,450 --> 01:54:33,179
perform what he does

3180
01:54:38,330 --> 01:54:35,460
it's not really him it's the beings that

3181
01:54:39,770 --> 01:54:38,340
come through him but I it's a really

3182
01:54:41,090 --> 01:54:39,780
interesting question I've thought about

3183
01:54:44,570 --> 01:54:41,100
that before

3184
01:54:46,970 --> 01:54:44,580
if the if the skeptic could pretend

3185
01:54:48,890 --> 01:54:46,980
you know that they were totally into

3186
01:54:52,129 --> 01:54:48,900
this mm-hmm

3187
01:54:53,990 --> 01:54:52,139
but weren't really uh I don't know what

3188
01:54:55,970 --> 01:54:54,000
would happen I would hope that maybe

3189
01:54:58,129 --> 01:54:55,980
they get to go in there and and

3190
01:54:59,629 --> 01:54:58,139
see that hand materialize and have their

3191
01:55:01,250 --> 01:54:59,639
lives changed

3192
01:55:03,050 --> 01:55:01,260
and they would have to pretend that

3193
01:55:05,330 --> 01:55:03,060
they're into it in order to be allowed

3194
01:55:08,030 --> 01:55:05,340
into the room to begin with

3195
01:55:09,830 --> 01:55:08,040
I would think I mean if and it's very

3196
01:55:11,810 --> 01:55:09,840
hard it's hard I mean Stewart does do

3197
01:55:13,550 --> 01:55:11,820
guest sittings where people can come in

3198
01:55:16,910 --> 01:55:13,560
you know it's but normally he works with

3199
01:55:18,290 --> 01:55:16,920
the same group every week but there are

3200
01:55:21,709 --> 01:55:18,300
there have been plenty of guests that

3201
01:55:23,750 --> 01:55:21,719
have come in and yeah I mean I think if

3202
01:55:26,570 --> 01:55:23,760
I don't know it would depend on this

3203
01:55:29,149 --> 01:55:26,580
since I mean Stewart is not interested

3204
01:55:30,590 --> 01:55:29,159
in being studied scientifically it's

3205
01:55:32,450 --> 01:55:30,600
just not something he's interested in

3206
01:55:34,910 --> 01:55:32,460
he's not interested in trying to prove

3207
01:55:37,250 --> 01:55:34,920
anything he he feels that that would be

3208
01:55:38,870 --> 01:55:37,260
very disruptive to the the weekly

3209
01:55:40,790 --> 01:55:38,880
process that he's involved with which

3210
01:55:43,129 --> 01:55:40,800
for him is really about

3211
01:55:45,709 --> 01:55:43,139
uh the experiments that go on it's about

3212
01:55:48,169 --> 01:55:45,719
continuing to develop it's about showing

3213
01:55:52,189 --> 01:55:48,179
people that life doesn't end with death

3214
01:55:53,750 --> 01:55:52,199
which is basically how he and the beings

3215
01:55:55,310 --> 01:55:53,760
that work through him if you're willing

3216
01:55:57,050 --> 01:55:55,320
to acknowledge you know accept that they

3217
01:55:58,970 --> 01:55:57,060
exist

3218
01:56:00,350 --> 01:55:58,980
um oh that's their purpose for doing

3219
01:56:04,010 --> 01:56:00,360
what they do

3220
01:56:07,010 --> 01:56:04,020
and he's not interested in subjecting

3221
01:56:08,870 --> 01:56:07,020
himself to the kind of studies that many

3222
01:56:11,450 --> 01:56:08,880
mediums of the past did subject

3223
01:56:13,370 --> 01:56:11,460
themselves to and that's why we have

3224
01:56:15,590 --> 01:56:13,380
documentation for the validity of this

3225
01:56:18,189 --> 01:56:15,600
because of some of the past studies but

3226
01:56:21,530 --> 01:56:18,199
those mediums were also

3227
01:56:23,990 --> 01:56:21,540
really tortured and tormented and

3228
01:56:25,010 --> 01:56:24,000
you know it was very very difficult for

3229
01:56:26,689 --> 01:56:25,020
them to go through what they went

3230
01:56:28,490 --> 01:56:26,699
through and basically he just wants to

3231
01:56:30,290 --> 01:56:28,500
keep sitting every week

3232
01:56:32,390 --> 01:56:30,300
you know uh

3233
01:56:34,070 --> 01:56:32,400
and he he doesn't want the kind of

3234
01:56:36,709 --> 01:56:34,080
public attention that would come from

3235
01:56:38,330 --> 01:56:36,719
scientific scrutiny uh and the

3236
01:56:40,850 --> 01:56:38,340
disruption to the process that he's

3237
01:56:43,070 --> 01:56:40,860
involved with he's just doesn't doesn't

3238
01:56:44,990 --> 01:56:43,080
care about trying to prove it they were

3239
01:56:47,390 --> 01:56:45,000
tortured he said they were just put

3240
01:56:49,250 --> 01:56:47,400
through such the ringer so much that

3241
01:56:50,510 --> 01:56:49,260
they you know one they'd be asked to do

3242
01:56:52,790 --> 01:56:50,520
one thing they'd be asked to do

3243
01:56:55,310 --> 01:56:52,800
something more you know they'd be put

3244
01:56:57,410 --> 01:56:55,320
into these very incredible physical

3245
01:57:00,290 --> 01:56:57,420
restraints or

3246
01:57:02,750 --> 01:57:00,300
you know be forced to they they'd eat

3247
01:57:05,810 --> 01:57:02,760
certain things that might affect this

3248
01:57:07,970 --> 01:57:05,820
ectoplasmic energy you know dyes and

3249
01:57:10,129 --> 01:57:07,980
things like that and that I mean a lot

3250
01:57:11,870 --> 01:57:10,139
of them were photographed and they don't

3251
01:57:14,149 --> 01:57:11,880
like certain types of food like food

3252
01:57:15,530 --> 01:57:14,159
with dyes and processed foods no I'm

3253
01:57:17,030 --> 01:57:15,540
just saying that it was one of the EXP

3254
01:57:19,550 --> 01:57:17,040
one of the ways they would do studies

3255
01:57:21,410 --> 01:57:19,560
was that the they try to

3256
01:57:24,470 --> 01:57:21,420
I mean again this is really kind of off

3257
01:57:26,209 --> 01:57:24,480
topic but you know they they'd give them

3258
01:57:29,330 --> 01:57:26,219
something to eat that

3259
01:57:32,149 --> 01:57:29,340
um might color the the stuff coming out

3260
01:57:34,129 --> 01:57:32,159
of their mouths if that was fake so if

3261
01:57:35,689 --> 01:57:34,139
they were regurgitating something that

3262
01:57:37,910 --> 01:57:35,699
they might have eaten before they went

3263
01:57:40,790 --> 01:57:37,920
in the room to produce a fake substance

3264
01:57:42,950 --> 01:57:40,800
for instance the dye from whatever they

3265
01:57:44,930 --> 01:57:42,960
ate would show up in that

3266
01:57:46,129 --> 01:57:44,940
you know things like that

3267
01:57:47,689 --> 01:57:46,139
um

3268
01:57:49,010 --> 01:57:47,699
but I mean they weren't they weren't

3269
01:57:50,810 --> 01:57:49,020
horrible but you know they would go on

3270
01:57:52,550 --> 01:57:50,820
and on and on and there was never enough

3271
01:57:55,250 --> 01:57:52,560
and there was always doubt no matter

3272
01:57:57,830 --> 01:57:55,260
what these individuals were able to show

3273
01:58:00,530 --> 01:57:57,840
to the scientists and sometimes people

3274
01:58:02,030 --> 01:58:00,540
disrespect uh the rules of the room

3275
01:58:05,030 --> 01:58:02,040
there were cases where where

3276
01:58:07,550 --> 01:58:05,040
investigators or just Skeptics would

3277
01:58:09,109 --> 01:58:07,560
flip the light switch on in the middle

3278
01:58:11,450 --> 01:58:09,119
of an event where there was this

3279
01:58:14,270 --> 01:58:11,460
sensitivity the sensitive energy in the

3280
01:58:17,629 --> 01:58:14,280
room and the the medium was severely

3281
01:58:19,129 --> 01:58:17,639
injured because of that or died even or

3282
01:58:21,589 --> 01:58:19,139
wasn't able to died

3283
01:58:23,270 --> 01:58:21,599
yeah there was one very famous medium

3284
01:58:25,550 --> 01:58:23,280
who was um

3285
01:58:27,290 --> 01:58:25,560
injured and then just was never able to

3286
01:58:29,629 --> 01:58:27,300
practice again and eventually died I

3287
01:58:31,010 --> 01:58:29,639
mean it's so sensitive the state that

3288
01:58:33,229 --> 01:58:31,020
they get into

3289
01:58:34,010 --> 01:58:33,239
and the substance that is exuded from

3290
01:58:36,709 --> 01:58:34,020
them

3291
01:58:38,750 --> 01:58:36,719
if the light suddenly comes on it rushes

3292
01:58:41,209 --> 01:58:38,760
back into their bodies

3293
01:58:42,830 --> 01:58:41,219
I mean again out of context this is all

3294
01:58:44,390 --> 01:58:42,840
going to sound insane to people sure

3295
01:58:46,070 --> 01:58:44,400
sure probably shouldn't talk about it

3296
01:58:47,450 --> 01:58:46,080
too much we're going to finish this and

3297
01:58:50,089 --> 01:58:47,460
then we probably shouldn't talk about it

3298
01:58:51,649 --> 01:58:50,099
anymore you know but it rushes back into

3299
01:58:53,629 --> 01:58:51,659
their bodies and can cause a lot of

3300
01:58:56,390 --> 01:58:53,639
injury physical injury to their bodies

3301
01:58:58,490 --> 01:58:56,400
and that's why they have to be extremely

3302
01:58:59,209 --> 01:58:58,500
careful about who who's allowed into the

3303
01:59:01,250 --> 01:58:59,219
room

3304
01:59:03,709 --> 01:59:01,260
because this has happened in a number of

3305
01:59:06,070 --> 01:59:03,719
cases where somebody has put the light

3306
01:59:08,270 --> 01:59:06,080
on and it's been has severe consequences

3307
01:59:10,609 --> 01:59:08,280
and it can

3308
01:59:13,010 --> 01:59:10,619
it's the protection of the medium that's

3309
01:59:15,709 --> 01:59:13,020
really the number one priority so

3310
01:59:17,390 --> 01:59:15,719
anyway I mean

3311
01:59:19,129 --> 01:59:17,400
I know people probably think it's it's

3312
01:59:21,229 --> 01:59:19,139
very hard to comprehend all this but

3313
01:59:22,430 --> 01:59:21,239
I've studied a lot of it I've studied it

3314
01:59:24,470 --> 01:59:22,440
well I think most of the people

3315
01:59:26,030 --> 01:59:24,480
listening and watching are much more

3316
01:59:27,470 --> 01:59:26,040
open than you would think and I think as

3317
01:59:29,330 --> 01:59:27,480
soon as you said oh we should move on

3318
01:59:31,430 --> 01:59:29,340
they're like what no this is Brightwood

3319
01:59:33,470 --> 01:59:31,440
has started to get good okay

3320
01:59:35,750 --> 01:59:33,480
I mean there are books and documents and

3321
01:59:39,109 --> 01:59:35,760
papers about all of this and these re

3322
01:59:41,089 --> 01:59:39,119
these mediums of the path were research

3323
01:59:43,370 --> 01:59:41,099
and I have the best the best researches

3324
01:59:45,589 --> 01:59:43,380
in my book so and all the references are

3325
01:59:47,330 --> 01:59:45,599
there for people who want to find out

3326
01:59:48,770 --> 01:59:47,340
more about how this could possibly be

3327
01:59:50,390 --> 01:59:48,780
true

3328
01:59:51,890 --> 01:59:50,400
um it's you know I would recommend

3329
01:59:54,470 --> 01:59:51,900
looking at some of the historical

3330
01:59:55,970 --> 01:59:54,480
documentation and if anybody gets a

3331
01:59:58,729 --> 01:59:55,980
chance to sit with Stuart Alexander

3332
02:00:01,550 --> 01:59:58,739
fantastic and I I wish everyone could

3333
02:00:03,050 --> 02:00:01,560
and maybe the problem is that is that

3334
02:00:05,330 --> 02:00:03,060
during covet there was such an

3335
02:00:06,890 --> 02:00:05,340
interruption

3336
02:00:07,970 --> 02:00:06,900
um because they couldn't sip together

3337
02:00:09,649 --> 02:00:07,980
for

3338
02:00:11,030 --> 02:00:09,659
I don't know how long a long time

3339
02:00:12,589 --> 02:00:11,040
because they can't you know during

3340
02:00:13,790 --> 02:00:12,599
covert they couldn't go in this small

3341
02:00:15,649 --> 02:00:13,800
dark room

3342
02:00:18,649 --> 02:00:15,659
for an hour every week

3343
02:00:21,229 --> 02:00:18,659
um everybody's quarantining right and so

3344
02:00:23,089 --> 02:00:21,239
now the energies I mean it's it's

3345
02:00:25,850 --> 02:00:23,099
happening again but Stuart hasn't done

3346
02:00:28,669 --> 02:00:25,860
any guest circles yet since covet ended

3347
02:00:30,709 --> 02:00:28,679
but I I hope you will and then

3348
02:00:32,930 --> 02:00:30,719
people can come and sit and then

3349
02:00:35,030 --> 02:00:32,940
experience this for themselves

3350
02:00:36,530 --> 02:00:35,040
um so we're going to end with just a

3351
02:00:37,669 --> 02:00:36,540
couple more questions firstly I want to

3352
02:00:39,290 --> 02:00:37,679
know what you make of the Pentagon

3353
02:00:41,089 --> 02:00:39,300
reports they're getting back to the UFO

3354
02:00:43,189 --> 02:00:41,099
topic what do you make of them even if

3355
02:00:45,290 --> 02:00:43,199
it's null that's still something and

3356
02:00:47,990 --> 02:00:45,300
secondly in the same way that you've

3357
02:00:49,609 --> 02:00:48,000
read aloud three references for some of

3358
02:00:50,810 --> 02:00:49,619
the peer-reviewed studies from before

3359
02:00:52,189 --> 02:00:50,820
you mentioned that there's some

3360
02:00:53,750 --> 02:00:52,199
documentation maybe not peer review

3361
02:00:56,330 --> 02:00:53,760
studies but there's some documentation

3362
02:00:57,709 --> 02:00:56,340
if you could also read a couple of them

3363
02:00:59,089 --> 02:00:57,719
for people who are driving who want to

3364
02:01:01,430 --> 02:00:59,099
listen and be like okay I want to look

3365
02:01:04,370 --> 02:01:01,440
up that resource okay you mean you mean

3366
02:01:07,310 --> 02:01:04,380
on the physical mediumship yes

3367
02:01:08,629 --> 02:01:07,320
um this is one of my favorites it's a

3368
02:01:11,030 --> 02:01:08,639
book called Clairvoyance and

3369
02:01:13,510 --> 02:01:11,040
materialization a record of experiments

3370
02:01:15,830 --> 02:01:13,520
and it was published in 19

3371
02:01:17,930 --> 02:01:15,840
1927 and I actually have an original

3372
02:01:20,209 --> 02:01:17,940
edition of this this book which is

3373
02:01:22,729 --> 02:01:20,219
really precious to me written by a

3374
02:01:26,570 --> 02:01:22,739
Gustav gilet who's a French investigator

3375
02:01:29,450 --> 02:01:26,580
and within that book he it studied this

3376
02:01:32,689 --> 02:01:29,460
medium name franic kluskey

3377
02:01:35,930 --> 02:01:32,699
who also materialized hands

3378
02:01:38,750 --> 02:01:35,940
and these hand he was able to make these

3379
02:01:41,089 --> 02:01:38,760
plaster molds of the hands and I talk

3380
02:01:42,589 --> 02:01:41,099
about this in the talk I gave it um Rice

3381
02:01:44,330 --> 02:01:42,599
University and I also write I've got

3382
02:01:46,250 --> 02:01:44,340
pictures of them in my book but

3383
02:01:50,149 --> 02:01:46,260
basically these hands materialized they

3384
02:01:52,390 --> 02:01:50,159
dip themselves into into hot wax

3385
02:01:54,109 --> 02:01:52,400
the hand came out of the wax the hand

3386
02:01:57,709 --> 02:01:54,119
dematerializes and then you're left with

3387
02:01:59,510 --> 02:01:57,719
this wax glove right and the only way

3388
02:02:01,250 --> 02:01:59,520
the hand could extract from that glove

3389
02:02:03,169 --> 02:02:01,260
is to dematerialize because there's no

3390
02:02:05,030 --> 02:02:03,179
breaks or and some of them are like this

3391
02:02:07,189 --> 02:02:05,040
some of them are two hands that are

3392
02:02:08,930 --> 02:02:07,199
linked so there's no way you could like

3393
02:02:11,330 --> 02:02:08,940
slide your hand out of the glove if you

3394
02:02:13,609 --> 02:02:11,340
were like a human being so the only way

3395
02:02:15,050 --> 02:02:13,619
that can happen is they do and people in

3396
02:02:16,310 --> 02:02:15,060
the room were actually able to see this

3397
02:02:17,750 --> 02:02:16,320
because there were there was enough

3398
02:02:20,689 --> 02:02:17,760
light in the room

3399
02:02:22,669 --> 02:02:20,699
and again how do you believe this well

3400
02:02:23,930 --> 02:02:22,679
it was documented by these scientists in

3401
02:02:26,689 --> 02:02:23,940
these papers

3402
02:02:28,609 --> 02:02:26,699
um and they have pictures and records of

3403
02:02:31,550 --> 02:02:28,619
all the experiments they did to to get

3404
02:02:33,589 --> 02:02:31,560
these molds that still exist and I've

3405
02:02:35,810 --> 02:02:33,599
actually seen them I went to Paris where

3406
02:02:38,390 --> 02:02:35,820
they're housed I was able to see these

3407
02:02:41,750 --> 02:02:38,400
uh these amazing

3408
02:02:44,270 --> 02:02:41,760
molds for these hands and it meant a

3409
02:02:46,550 --> 02:02:44,280
huge amount to me to see them

3410
02:02:49,010 --> 02:02:46,560
um I mean maybe I can show you here's a

3411
02:02:50,930 --> 02:02:49,020
picture of some of them please

3412
02:02:53,149 --> 02:02:50,940
um I don't know how well you can see

3413
02:02:57,770 --> 02:02:53,159
that yeah but these are from what year

3414
02:02:59,510 --> 02:02:57,780
in 1927 you said yeah in the 1920s yep

3415
02:03:01,370 --> 02:02:59,520
um you know they're not all perfect but

3416
02:03:04,310 --> 02:03:01,380
this this one on top

3417
02:03:07,609 --> 02:03:04,320
is two then again in this

3418
02:03:08,990 --> 02:03:07,619
um yeah in my lecture at a rice I've got

3419
02:03:10,490 --> 02:03:09,000
a lot more pictures that are better than

3420
02:03:12,950 --> 02:03:10,500
these because I took them myself when I

3421
02:03:15,470 --> 02:03:12,960
was there they're better

3422
02:03:18,169 --> 02:03:15,480
um but um

3423
02:03:20,390 --> 02:03:18,179
you know it's just and when you read the

3424
02:03:23,390 --> 02:03:20,400
documentation of these two and it wasn't

3425
02:03:26,149 --> 02:03:23,400
just Chalet he was partnered with um

3426
02:03:27,709 --> 02:03:26,159
another oh my God I'm blanking under the

3427
02:03:29,209 --> 02:03:27,719
name and name I know very very well but

3428
02:03:31,310 --> 02:03:29,219
I'm blanking out on it right now because

3429
02:03:32,810 --> 02:03:31,320
we've been talking so much Kurt my

3430
02:03:34,310 --> 02:03:32,820
brain's like

3431
02:03:36,109 --> 02:03:34,320
um but I appreciate you taking all this

3432
02:03:37,790 --> 02:03:36,119
time yeah it's all documented in the

3433
02:03:39,530 --> 02:03:37,800
book very detailed meticulous

3434
02:03:41,689 --> 02:03:39,540
documentation of everything that they

3435
02:03:42,770 --> 02:03:41,699
did and these were two scientists who

3436
02:03:44,450 --> 02:03:42,780
are not

3437
02:03:45,830 --> 02:03:44,460
going to risk their careers by making

3438
02:03:47,689 --> 02:03:45,840
this stuff up and yeah there were

3439
02:03:48,950 --> 02:03:47,699
witnesses to it and studies done on the

3440
02:03:52,129 --> 02:03:48,960
all kinds of stuff

3441
02:03:54,770 --> 02:03:52,139
but it's phenomenal right that how do

3442
02:03:56,390 --> 02:03:54,780
you explain the materialization of of

3443
02:03:58,010 --> 02:03:56,400
living hands

3444
02:03:59,510 --> 02:03:58,020
and this is something that's been

3445
02:04:00,950 --> 02:03:59,520
documented and there are other studies

3446
02:04:02,810 --> 02:04:00,960
that have documented it too with other

3447
02:04:04,790 --> 02:04:02,820
mediums

3448
02:04:07,609 --> 02:04:04,800
so what was amazing to me that I had

3449
02:04:09,890 --> 02:04:07,619
studied these documents

3450
02:04:11,930 --> 02:04:09,900
and I was fascinated by it and then

3451
02:04:13,609 --> 02:04:11,940
suddenly I found this medium who can do

3452
02:04:15,290 --> 02:04:13,619
the same thing now

3453
02:04:17,030 --> 02:04:15,300
and it allowed me to be much more

3454
02:04:20,510 --> 02:04:17,040
accepting of it to realize if it could

3455
02:04:22,609 --> 02:04:20,520
be done then as was well documented by

3456
02:04:23,870 --> 02:04:22,619
numerous mediums and sort of what we

3457
02:04:27,350 --> 02:04:23,880
call the Golden Age of physical

3458
02:04:29,689 --> 02:04:27,360
mediumship which was mainly 1920s 30s or

3459
02:04:31,910 --> 02:04:29,699
even the end of the 1800s

3460
02:04:33,470 --> 02:04:31,920
and why couldn't it happen now if it

3461
02:04:36,050 --> 02:04:33,480
happened then right

3462
02:04:37,729 --> 02:04:36,060
and so even though Stewart does not want

3463
02:04:39,129 --> 02:04:37,739
these scientists coming in and filming

3464
02:04:41,510 --> 02:04:39,139
it and documenting it and all that

3465
02:04:44,689 --> 02:04:41,520
nonetheless it's happening now on the

3466
02:04:46,609 --> 02:04:44,699
planet the same thing and so that's why

3467
02:04:49,430 --> 02:04:46,619
for me to discover that and to be able

3468
02:04:51,410 --> 02:04:49,440
to experience it myself after being so

3469
02:04:55,010 --> 02:04:51,420
interested in this

3470
02:04:57,850 --> 02:04:55,020
was amazing okay I don't know what how

3471
02:05:01,490 --> 02:04:57,860
to describe it but it was really really

3472
02:05:07,490 --> 02:05:01,500
profound that that ever happened to me

3473
02:05:10,310 --> 02:05:08,149
um

3474
02:05:13,129 --> 02:05:10,320
I'm I've got some

3475
02:05:15,530 --> 02:05:13,139
um right another writing project in the

3476
02:05:17,330 --> 02:05:15,540
in the wings but it's not a book it's

3477
02:05:18,290 --> 02:05:17,340
another type form of writing which I

3478
02:05:20,270 --> 02:05:18,300
don't really want to talk about because

3479
02:05:23,330 --> 02:05:20,280
I don't like to until I know something's

3480
02:05:25,550 --> 02:05:23,340
really gonna happen let's see I'm you

3481
02:05:27,169 --> 02:05:25,560
know I'm I'm helping get the the current

3482
02:05:28,310 --> 02:05:27,179
series

3483
02:05:30,229 --> 02:05:28,320
um I'm dealing with a lot of

3484
02:05:33,109 --> 02:05:30,239
communications and responses to that and

3485
02:05:36,169 --> 02:05:33,119
opening interviews to try to get

3486
02:05:39,050 --> 02:05:36,179
the word out to the American public the

3487
02:05:41,270 --> 02:05:39,060
series being the Netflix Hulu one yeah

3488
02:05:43,430 --> 02:05:41,280
it's not Netflix it's it's not Geo and

3489
02:05:45,290 --> 02:05:43,440
Hulu for people who are listening once

3490
02:05:48,470 --> 02:05:45,300
more to UFOs investigating the unknown

3491
02:05:50,270 --> 02:05:48,480
is that correct yes go to Hulu it's

3492
02:05:52,189 --> 02:05:50,280
right there and it was just released a

3493
02:05:54,950 --> 02:05:52,199
couple days ago the first two episodes

3494
02:05:57,530 --> 02:05:54,960
the next two episodes are next Monday on

3495
02:05:59,209 --> 02:05:57,540
Nat Geo and then Tuesday on Hulu and

3496
02:06:01,930 --> 02:05:59,219
then the fifth episode is the following

3497
02:06:05,510 --> 02:06:01,940
Monday on that Geo and then on Hulu

3498
02:06:07,370 --> 02:06:05,520
so in two weeks all episodes will be on

3499
02:06:09,649 --> 02:06:07,380
Hulu but you can watch them gradually as

3500
02:06:11,870 --> 02:06:09,659
they as they're released yeah to be

3501
02:06:13,189 --> 02:06:11,880
clear this is February 2023 so if you're

3502
02:06:14,870 --> 02:06:13,199
listening to this much later all

3503
02:06:18,410 --> 02:06:14,880
episodes may be released

3504
02:06:20,149 --> 02:06:18,420
yeah depends um so I think the last date

3505
02:06:22,430 --> 02:06:20,159
I don't have my calendar in front of me

3506
02:06:24,830 --> 02:06:22,440
is two weeks from

3507
02:06:26,750 --> 02:06:24,840
the previous Monday I'm sure you're

3508
02:06:28,609 --> 02:06:26,760
already out there anyway

3509
02:06:30,470 --> 02:06:28,619
um I'm always hoping to be able to do

3510
02:06:31,609 --> 02:06:30,480
more reporting for the New York Times as

3511
02:06:33,950 --> 02:06:31,619
well

3512
02:06:35,689 --> 02:06:33,960
with my colleague Ralph Blumenthal and

3513
02:06:37,010 --> 02:06:35,699
we're always digging and talking to

3514
02:06:38,570 --> 02:06:37,020
people and

3515
02:06:39,950 --> 02:06:38,580
you know seeing what we can come up with

3516
02:06:42,109 --> 02:06:39,960
on that score

3517
02:06:43,910 --> 02:06:42,119
um and it takes way more time than you

3518
02:06:45,109 --> 02:06:43,920
might imagine because not everything

3519
02:06:47,089 --> 02:06:45,119
pans out

3520
02:06:50,270 --> 02:06:47,099
or you have to spend a lot of time

3521
02:06:52,270 --> 02:06:50,280
talking to sources to get maybe a nugget

3522
02:06:53,870 --> 02:06:52,280
that would lead to a story

3523
02:06:55,189 --> 02:06:53,880
so

3524
02:06:57,770 --> 02:06:55,199
um

3525
02:06:58,609 --> 02:06:57,780
yeah and I never know where my path will

3526
02:07:00,410 --> 02:06:58,619
go

3527
02:07:01,970 --> 02:07:00,420
you know there might be other uh

3528
02:07:03,530 --> 02:07:01,980
projects I'll do with breakthrough films

3529
02:07:06,169 --> 02:07:03,540
which is the company that made this

3530
02:07:07,970 --> 02:07:06,179
current series and also made surviving

3531
02:07:08,990 --> 02:07:07,980
death the series we just talked about on

3532
02:07:11,390 --> 02:07:09,000
Netflix

3533
02:07:12,649 --> 02:07:11,400
this amazing independent film company in

3534
02:07:14,689 --> 02:07:12,659
New York who I've worked with for years

3535
02:07:15,950 --> 02:07:14,699
and years so we may end up doing another

3536
02:07:18,050 --> 02:07:15,960
uh

3537
02:07:19,609 --> 02:07:18,060
series or documentary or something

3538
02:07:22,370 --> 02:07:19,619
together

3539
02:07:25,129 --> 02:07:22,380
I don't know yet but do you have a dream

3540
02:07:29,570 --> 02:07:27,410
um oh kind of but I don't know I can't

3541
02:07:31,070 --> 02:07:29,580
talk I don't want to talk about it but

3542
02:07:32,450 --> 02:07:31,080
like man that is not in the works right

3543
02:07:33,709 --> 02:07:32,460
now that you're thinking I'm working up

3544
02:07:35,570 --> 02:07:33,719
to that

3545
02:07:37,609 --> 02:07:35,580
I would say yes

3546
02:07:40,850 --> 02:07:37,619
I'm similar in that I don't like to talk

3547
02:07:41,930 --> 02:07:40,860
about what's embryonic how many years is

3548
02:07:44,209 --> 02:07:41,940
that away

3549
02:07:46,330 --> 02:07:44,219
in your best case scenario

3550
02:07:49,729 --> 02:07:46,340
um

3551
02:07:54,410 --> 02:07:49,739
I don't know it depends how much focus

3552
02:07:57,050 --> 02:07:54,420
is put on it the resources to do it and

3553
02:07:58,850 --> 02:07:57,060
I mean it could be just a few years

3554
02:08:01,129 --> 02:07:58,860
away

3555
02:08:03,950 --> 02:08:01,139
okay I'm gonna hold you to that within a

3556
02:08:05,570 --> 02:08:03,960
decade okay oh definitely I don't yeah

3557
02:08:07,070 --> 02:08:05,580
it better happen before that I don't

3558
02:08:08,570 --> 02:08:07,080
think we're gonna be in any shape in a

3559
02:08:11,510 --> 02:08:08,580
decade to be doing very much of anything

3560
02:08:13,189 --> 02:08:11,520
so I don't have I'm not hopeful for the

3561
02:08:15,709 --> 02:08:13,199
future direction that we're moving in it

3562
02:08:19,010 --> 02:08:15,719
and the future Direction climate wise AI

3563
02:08:20,390 --> 02:08:19,020
wise and geopolitical wise gee you know

3564
02:08:22,609 --> 02:08:20,400
that's the thing I think is going to

3565
02:08:24,530 --> 02:08:22,619
kind of come I think things are going to

3566
02:08:25,430 --> 02:08:24,540
be pretty difficult starting in a few

3567
02:08:28,070 --> 02:08:25,440
years

3568
02:08:29,510 --> 02:08:28,080
and from what I've told my sources

3569
02:08:31,910 --> 02:08:29,520
what does that mean it's going to be

3570
02:08:33,950 --> 02:08:31,920
difficult I mean I can't say

3571
02:08:36,830 --> 02:08:33,960
specifically I don't know that much yet

3572
02:08:38,930 --> 02:08:36,840
and I can't really say but just that um

3573
02:08:40,850 --> 02:08:38,940
a lot of what we take for granted now in

3574
02:08:43,010 --> 02:08:40,860
life I don't think is going to be

3575
02:08:44,930 --> 02:08:43,020
you know we're not going to have it a

3576
02:08:47,030 --> 02:08:44,940
lot of things we have now that makes our

3577
02:08:48,830 --> 02:08:47,040
lives as wonderful as they are

3578
02:08:51,350 --> 02:08:48,840
like electricity

3579
02:08:52,790 --> 02:08:51,360
I don't know I don't know just the

3580
02:08:55,669 --> 02:08:52,800
access to all the things we have access

3581
02:08:59,270 --> 02:08:55,679
to now that are that are dependent on

3582
02:09:01,790 --> 02:08:59,280
the global globalization basically

3583
02:09:03,470 --> 02:09:01,800
which just aren't sustainable

3584
02:09:05,390 --> 02:09:03,480
a lot of the things we have aren't

3585
02:09:08,330 --> 02:09:05,400
sustainable the populations are growing

3586
02:09:10,970 --> 02:09:08,340
and I think the climate issues are major

3587
02:09:12,770 --> 02:09:10,980
as well and that's just my opinion

3588
02:09:15,109 --> 02:09:12,780
but I have studied quite a bit about the

3589
02:09:17,030 --> 02:09:15,119
climate change problem and I take it

3590
02:09:18,830 --> 02:09:17,040
really seriously is there something

3591
02:09:20,629 --> 02:09:18,840
about the geopolitical situation because

3592
02:09:22,790 --> 02:09:20,639
you just referenced population climate

3593
02:09:24,350 --> 02:09:22,800
change it's not that simple I I just

3594
02:09:27,410 --> 02:09:24,360
don't feel qualified to talk about it

3595
02:09:30,770 --> 02:09:27,420
but I just I just don't think things

3596
02:09:32,270 --> 02:09:30,780
things as they are now are sustainable

3597
02:09:34,070 --> 02:09:32,280
and

3598
02:09:35,350 --> 02:09:34,080
I'm not qualified to really talk about

3599
02:09:39,530 --> 02:09:35,360
that

3600
02:09:41,750 --> 02:09:39,540
yeah so I I don't think it I don't think

3601
02:09:44,089 --> 02:09:41,760
10 years of the future

3602
02:09:46,729 --> 02:09:44,099
I only think three or four years into

3603
02:09:53,810 --> 02:09:48,709
it's too uncertain past that point

3604
02:09:58,070 --> 02:09:55,490
okay

3605
02:10:00,890 --> 02:09:58,080
I'm going to check with the audience

3606
02:10:04,490 --> 02:10:02,330
do we have some questions from the

3607
02:10:06,589 --> 02:10:04,500
audience someone said you're working on

3608
02:10:09,470 --> 02:10:06,599
disclosure

3609
02:10:12,649 --> 02:10:09,480
kind of I think so yeah yeah of A Sort

3610
02:10:14,209 --> 02:10:12,659
huh right if I can report new

3611
02:10:16,970 --> 02:10:14,219
information it kind of moves the ball

3612
02:10:19,189 --> 02:10:16,980
towards greater disclosure while we're

3613
02:10:21,109 --> 02:10:19,199
talking about that I get probably as

3614
02:10:23,209 --> 02:10:21,119
frustrated as you do and as anyone who's

3615
02:10:25,550 --> 02:10:23,219
listening to this watching interviews

3616
02:10:26,870 --> 02:10:25,560
with the supposed UFO big weeks we're

3617
02:10:29,270 --> 02:10:26,880
hoping we're watching them thinking

3618
02:10:31,370 --> 02:10:29,280
please slip up say something that

3619
02:10:32,390 --> 02:10:31,380
crosses your NDA there's such a lack of

3620
02:10:34,370 --> 02:10:32,400
information it's constantly

3621
02:10:36,350 --> 02:10:34,380
disappointing or there's equivocation

3622
02:10:38,030 --> 02:10:36,360
and we just want more answers more

3623
02:10:39,530 --> 02:10:38,040
answers and you mentioned there are some

3624
02:10:41,330 --> 02:10:39,540
necessary preconditions for further

3625
02:10:43,250 --> 02:10:41,340
disclosure I think one of them is

3626
02:10:45,229 --> 02:10:43,260
destigmatization and I think part of

3627
02:10:46,970 --> 02:10:45,239
that is also people watching in a sense

3628
02:10:48,410 --> 02:10:46,980
if you're watching when you're hearing

3629
02:10:50,450 --> 02:10:48,420
this you're listening to this you're a

3630
02:10:52,910 --> 02:10:50,460
part of a necessary precondition for

3631
02:10:54,589 --> 02:10:52,920
disclosure so it's not all lost I know I

3632
02:10:56,450 --> 02:10:54,599
can get dismayed when I watch interviews

3633
02:10:57,830 --> 02:10:56,460
or read transcripts and so on and I'm

3634
02:10:59,270 --> 02:10:57,840
thinking like come on I just want to

3635
02:11:01,209 --> 02:10:59,280
hear the answers here the answers you're

3636
02:11:03,589 --> 02:11:01,219
gonna mess up lapses lingui somewhere

3637
02:11:05,209 --> 02:11:03,599
right they're so careful not to because

3638
02:11:07,370 --> 02:11:05,219
they don't want to get in trouble but

3639
02:11:09,050 --> 02:11:07,380
there is this process now that people

3640
02:11:10,970 --> 02:11:09,060
can go through with this with

3641
02:11:14,209 --> 02:11:10,980
information like that

3642
02:11:15,609 --> 02:11:14,219
to reveal it to the authorities into

3643
02:11:19,129 --> 02:11:15,619
Congress

3644
02:11:20,629 --> 02:11:19,139
that maybe will eventually become

3645
02:11:22,790 --> 02:11:20,639
available for us

3646
02:11:24,169 --> 02:11:22,800
so people with that information now have

3647
02:11:26,390 --> 02:11:24,179
something they can do with it and they

3648
02:11:28,250 --> 02:11:26,400
don't just sit on it anymore

3649
02:11:30,290 --> 02:11:28,260
so we'll see what happens

3650
02:11:32,450 --> 02:11:30,300
so I'll read some of the comments many

3651
02:11:34,250 --> 02:11:32,460
many plaudits toward you saying

3652
02:11:36,530 --> 02:11:34,260
appreciate all of your time Leslie thank

3653
02:11:38,209 --> 02:11:36,540
you Leslie your 2017 article was a

3654
02:11:40,850 --> 02:11:38,219
paradigm shift this is my favorite toe

3655
02:11:43,609 --> 02:11:40,860
interview yet great

3656
02:11:44,930 --> 02:11:43,619
so well people like the weird stuff I

3657
02:11:47,089 --> 02:11:44,940
think they like honesty more than

3658
02:11:48,770 --> 02:11:47,099
anything else I do feel very I almost

3659
02:11:49,970 --> 02:11:48,780
feel vulnerable talking about all that

3660
02:11:52,550 --> 02:11:49,980
stuff and I hope people will understand

3661
02:11:54,410 --> 02:11:52,560
that it's very personal and it's also

3662
02:11:57,350 --> 02:11:54,420
out of context when you're hearing it so

3663
02:11:59,390 --> 02:11:57,360
grant me that yeah what's been your

3664
02:12:02,810 --> 02:11:59,400
experience with the phenomenon as in the

3665
02:12:05,330 --> 02:12:02,820
more UFO UAP related phenomena I would

3666
02:12:06,709 --> 02:12:05,340
say nothing I mean I I may have seen

3667
02:12:08,870 --> 02:12:06,719
some things in the sky that I thought I

3668
02:12:10,550 --> 02:12:08,880
wonder what that is but you know nothing

3669
02:12:12,290 --> 02:12:10,560
dramatic at all

3670
02:12:13,970 --> 02:12:12,300
that that's really all the people I've

3671
02:12:15,649 --> 02:12:13,980
talked to who are witnesses rather than

3672
02:12:17,510 --> 02:12:15,659
me being a witness

3673
02:12:19,490 --> 02:12:17,520
how do you think the world would change

3674
02:12:21,290 --> 02:12:19,500
if they knew what you knew that is to

3675
02:12:23,030 --> 02:12:21,300
say there are some pieces of information

3676
02:12:24,649 --> 02:12:23,040
that were given to you that you can't

3677
02:12:26,689 --> 02:12:24,659
disclose because it was told to you off

3678
02:12:29,089 --> 02:12:26,699
the Record or for whatever other reason

3679
02:12:30,589 --> 02:12:29,099
given that you can't say what it is but

3680
02:12:32,149 --> 02:12:30,599
how do you think the world would change

3681
02:12:35,390 --> 02:12:32,159
if people had access to the same

3682
02:12:35,400 --> 02:12:38,570
um

3683
02:12:42,950 --> 02:12:40,729
I don't think I have access that much

3684
02:12:44,689 --> 02:12:42,960
more than most people but

3685
02:12:47,990 --> 02:12:44,699
um

3686
02:12:51,830 --> 02:12:49,550
I don't know if I can say without

3687
02:12:52,609 --> 02:12:51,840
revealing what that knowledge is you

3688
02:12:55,010 --> 02:12:52,619
know

3689
02:12:57,470 --> 02:12:55,020
it's just think about if

3690
02:13:00,229 --> 02:12:57,480
if I mean we talked about it earlier if

3691
02:13:02,089 --> 02:13:00,239
people become convinced that there is

3692
02:13:05,089 --> 02:13:02,099
something here that's

3693
02:13:06,589 --> 02:13:05,099
not human and it's it's an intelligence

3694
02:13:08,830 --> 02:13:06,599
and it has power

3695
02:13:11,750 --> 02:13:08,840
how would they react

3696
02:13:14,270 --> 02:13:11,760
I mean that's kind of when we talked

3697
02:13:16,729 --> 02:13:14,280
about it earlier

3698
02:13:19,490 --> 02:13:18,290
you know I don't know what else I can

3699
02:13:21,830 --> 02:13:19,500
say

3700
02:13:23,089 --> 02:13:21,840
with regard to the uaps what convinces

3701
02:13:25,189 --> 02:13:23,099
you that there's something intelligent

3702
02:13:27,050 --> 02:13:25,199
behind it I'll preface this with the way

3703
02:13:29,089 --> 02:13:27,060
it moves in the sky doesn't to me

3704
02:13:30,890 --> 02:13:29,099
indicate intelligence per se because it

3705
02:13:32,510 --> 02:13:30,900
could be some Advanced drone if it's

3706
02:13:34,910 --> 02:13:32,520
even extraterrestrial extraterrestrial

3707
02:13:37,069 --> 02:13:34,920
sense something unmanned or sent a

3708
02:13:38,510 --> 02:13:37,079
biological right robot right and it

3709
02:13:41,930 --> 02:13:38,520
doesn't necessarily mean creativity or

3710
02:13:44,209 --> 02:13:41,940
intelligence or intention what convinces

3711
02:13:46,910 --> 02:13:44,219
you that there's intelligence behind the

3712
02:13:49,189 --> 02:13:46,920
uaps well I mean there are some cases

3713
02:13:51,530 --> 02:13:49,199
where they're responsive

3714
02:13:53,149 --> 02:13:51,540
so there are cases I remember in the

3715
02:13:56,270 --> 02:13:53,159
study by Richard Haynes that I wrote

3716
02:13:58,010 --> 02:13:56,280
about in 2001 and it goes way back you

3717
02:13:59,870 --> 02:13:58,020
know in documenting all these cases of

3718
02:14:01,669 --> 02:13:59,880
Aviation safety issues with it with

3719
02:14:04,129 --> 02:14:01,679
commercial airplanes

3720
02:14:06,589 --> 02:14:04,139
there were many cases where the UFOs

3721
02:14:07,970 --> 02:14:06,599
appeared to respond to the actions of

3722
02:14:10,550 --> 02:14:07,980
the pilot or the movements of the

3723
02:14:13,189 --> 02:14:10,560
airplane even in the even in the Tic Tac

3724
02:14:15,530 --> 02:14:13,199
event right you know the way that Tic

3725
02:14:18,470 --> 02:14:15,540
Tac was responding to the to Dave fraver

3726
02:14:20,629 --> 02:14:18,480
and kind of interacting with him other

3727
02:14:24,229 --> 02:14:20,639
another case is the Peruvian case of

3728
02:14:25,729 --> 02:14:24,239
1980 where um Oscar Santa Maria was sent

3729
02:14:27,589 --> 02:14:25,739
out to shoot down

3730
02:14:29,330 --> 02:14:27,599
something that they saw with us it's

3731
02:14:31,270 --> 02:14:29,340
funny about bringing this up now they

3732
02:14:35,149 --> 02:14:31,280
thought it was a spy balloon

3733
02:14:37,129 --> 02:14:35,159
uh and um this thing kind of got

3734
02:14:39,290 --> 02:14:37,139
involved in it he realized it wasn't a

3735
02:14:40,970 --> 02:14:39,300
balloon it was a he tried to shoot it

3736
02:14:42,890 --> 02:14:40,980
down and he couldn't shoot it down but

3737
02:14:44,089 --> 02:14:42,900
then it started to maneuver along with

3738
02:14:46,790 --> 02:14:44,099
his plane

3739
02:14:48,050 --> 02:14:46,800
and it would interact with him I mean I

3740
02:14:49,310 --> 02:14:48,060
won't go on all the details but there

3741
02:14:51,290 --> 02:14:49,320
was sort of this cat and mouse game

3742
02:14:54,229 --> 02:14:51,300
going on so lots of times there seems to

3743
02:14:55,729 --> 02:14:54,239
be interactions that are occurring so

3744
02:14:57,229 --> 02:14:55,739
that's where I think the intelligence

3745
02:14:58,910 --> 02:14:57,239
comes in and a lot of the military

3746
02:15:00,709 --> 02:14:58,920
people I mean the famous phrase of

3747
02:15:03,950 --> 02:15:00,719
Charles halts from the red ocean

3748
02:15:05,450 --> 02:15:03,960
incident is he says it said so many

3749
02:15:08,030 --> 02:15:05,460
times that they appear to be under

3750
02:15:09,950 --> 02:15:08,040
intelligent control it just a phrase

3751
02:15:11,390 --> 02:15:09,960
I've heard a lot of them use and I think

3752
02:15:14,209 --> 02:15:11,400
when the pilots are in the air and

3753
02:15:15,649 --> 02:15:14,219
observing them if there's any sense of

3754
02:15:17,750 --> 02:15:15,659
responsiveness

3755
02:15:19,370 --> 02:15:17,760
to the their presence that would

3756
02:15:21,350 --> 02:15:19,380
indicate there's some Consciousness

3757
02:15:23,930 --> 02:15:21,360
there there's some awareness of of them

3758
02:15:25,609 --> 02:15:23,940
which implies intelligence

3759
02:15:28,430 --> 02:15:25,619
so you have to look at the cases when

3760
02:15:29,270 --> 02:15:28,440
there's more of an interaction

3761
02:15:30,950 --> 02:15:29,280
um

3762
02:15:32,510 --> 02:15:30,960
but because you're right if they're just

3763
02:15:34,790 --> 02:15:32,520
flying around up there doing their own

3764
02:15:36,470 --> 02:15:34,800
thing it it doesn't show particularly

3765
02:15:37,850 --> 02:15:36,480
intelligence it's when they're

3766
02:15:39,169 --> 02:15:37,860
responding to something that's happening

3767
02:15:40,510 --> 02:15:39,179
around them in the moment that they

3768
02:15:43,069 --> 02:15:40,520
couldn't predict

3769
02:15:44,750 --> 02:15:43,079
that you you know unless there's some

3770
02:15:45,910 --> 02:15:44,760
kind of Technology where they can do

3771
02:15:48,649 --> 02:15:45,920
that without

3772
02:15:50,689 --> 02:15:48,659
intelligence that depends how you define

3773
02:15:51,890 --> 02:15:50,699
intelligence I guess I mean maybe

3774
02:15:53,810 --> 02:15:51,900
they're they're just sophisticated

3775
02:15:55,910 --> 02:15:53,820
technology that can

3776
02:15:57,950 --> 02:15:55,920
adapt and respond to what's going on

3777
02:16:01,310 --> 02:15:57,960
around them

3778
02:16:03,530 --> 02:16:01,320
um so I don't know but um I've heard so

3779
02:16:06,770 --> 02:16:03,540
many military Witnesses and Military

3780
02:16:08,569 --> 02:16:06,780
experts use that phrase

3781
02:16:11,450 --> 02:16:08,579
that they appear to be under intelligent

3782
02:16:13,490 --> 02:16:11,460
control that I just kind of

3783
02:16:16,189 --> 02:16:13,500
in many cases it appears to me that way

3784
02:16:17,870 --> 02:16:16,199
too have you heard anything credible or

3785
02:16:20,750 --> 02:16:17,880
anything interesting with regard to the

3786
02:16:23,510 --> 02:16:20,760
time traveling humans hypothesis

3787
02:16:25,310 --> 02:16:23,520
yeah I find it really interesting Kurt

3788
02:16:26,510 --> 02:16:25,320
it's funny you raised that question

3789
02:16:28,250 --> 02:16:26,520
because I have this little thing in

3790
02:16:31,790 --> 02:16:28,260
front of me I was thinking about reading

3791
02:16:32,750 --> 02:16:31,800
it's a little it's sent to me by

3792
02:16:35,750 --> 02:16:32,760
um

3793
02:16:37,730 --> 02:16:35,760
a colleague who is very interested in

3794
02:16:39,469 --> 02:16:37,740
that question

3795
02:16:42,230 --> 02:16:39,479
and it kind of relates to the show

3796
02:16:43,969 --> 02:16:42,240
called Dark that I mentioned earlier

3797
02:16:45,950 --> 02:16:43,979
which I would encourage everyone to

3798
02:16:48,110 --> 02:16:45,960
watch because it deals with that

3799
02:16:50,209 --> 02:16:48,120
question and it's it's metaphorical

3800
02:16:51,469 --> 02:16:50,219
it deals with humans involved with time

3801
02:16:53,209 --> 02:16:51,479
travel but you have to look at the

3802
02:16:55,009 --> 02:16:53,219
deeper layers of it and it really speaks

3803
02:16:57,290 --> 02:16:55,019
to the question of that that you bring

3804
02:16:59,410 --> 02:16:57,300
up and I just wanna

3805
02:17:02,150 --> 02:16:59,420
I want to just read I was really

3806
02:17:05,089 --> 02:17:02,160
affected by these few lines that this

3807
02:17:07,669 --> 02:17:05,099
friend sent to me and it says

3808
02:17:10,129 --> 02:17:07,679
what he wrote was we trust that time is

3809
02:17:13,310 --> 02:17:10,139
linear that it proceeds eternally

3810
02:17:14,990 --> 02:17:13,320
uniformly into Infinity but the

3811
02:17:17,389 --> 02:17:15,000
distinction between past present and

3812
02:17:20,150 --> 02:17:17,399
future is nothing but an illusion

3813
02:17:22,549 --> 02:17:20,160
yesterday today and tomorrow are not

3814
02:17:24,169 --> 02:17:22,559
consecutive they are connected in a

3815
02:17:26,330 --> 02:17:24,179
never-ending Circle

3816
02:17:29,089 --> 02:17:26,340
everything is connected

3817
02:17:32,389 --> 02:17:29,099
We Exist within a spiral galaxy after

3818
02:17:38,870 --> 02:17:32,399
all ultimately what we know is a drop

3819
02:17:42,169 --> 02:17:40,490
maybe that doesn't really relate to time

3820
02:17:43,610 --> 02:17:42,179
travel but it sort of does because it

3821
02:17:45,469 --> 02:17:43,620
already time travel is connected with

3822
02:17:50,150 --> 02:17:45,479
time

3823
02:17:53,330 --> 02:17:50,160
and some of the lines from this text uh

3824
02:17:55,910 --> 02:17:53,340
actually came from the show dark

3825
02:17:59,209 --> 02:17:55,920
um and so

3826
02:18:00,889 --> 02:17:59,219
I would yeah that's about you know I'm

3827
02:18:04,250 --> 02:18:00,899
I'm still trying to figure all this out

3828
02:18:07,490 --> 02:18:06,230
uh I would encourage people to watch

3829
02:18:09,349 --> 02:18:07,500
that and see what see what they think of

3830
02:18:13,730 --> 02:18:09,359
it because I learned a lot from that

3831
02:18:17,089 --> 02:18:13,740
show about time and time travel and

3832
02:18:18,469 --> 02:18:17,099
it all relates to the ultimate nature of

3833
02:18:19,790 --> 02:18:18,479
the phenomenon we're dealing with which

3834
02:18:23,990 --> 02:18:19,800
is something

3835
02:18:26,209 --> 02:18:24,000
vast and big and defies time and

3836
02:18:29,629 --> 02:18:26,219
so it yeah so can it be connected to

3837
02:18:32,209 --> 02:18:29,639
time travel yes I say so

3838
02:18:34,009 --> 02:18:32,219
Leslie thank you so much for coming on I

3839
02:18:35,570 --> 02:18:34,019
appreciate you spending three hours at

3840
02:18:38,270 --> 02:18:35,580
least with me

3841
02:18:40,969 --> 02:18:38,280
oh Kurt it went really fast and because

3842
02:18:42,589 --> 02:18:40,979
I'm blabbing away and talking a lot so

3843
02:18:43,849 --> 02:18:42,599
but I think you asked fantastic

3844
02:18:46,190 --> 02:18:43,859
questions

3845
02:18:48,530 --> 02:18:46,200
I appreciate the respect and curiosity

3846
02:18:50,389 --> 02:18:48,540
you have for these strange things that

3847
02:18:52,490 --> 02:18:50,399
happened and I'm not the only one they

3848
02:18:54,830 --> 02:18:52,500
happen to they happen to lots of people

3849
02:18:57,049 --> 02:18:54,840
so I want people to realize that they're

3850
02:18:59,030 --> 02:18:57,059
not weird

3851
02:19:00,770 --> 02:18:59,040
um and yeah

3852
02:19:03,110 --> 02:19:00,780
I appreciate your

3853
02:19:05,030 --> 02:19:03,120
putting this information out because

3854
02:19:06,169 --> 02:19:05,040
it's important that people understand

3855
02:19:08,589 --> 02:19:06,179
that

3856
02:19:11,330 --> 02:19:08,599
life isn't what they think it is

3857
02:19:15,169 --> 02:19:11,340
and they don't have to feel weird if

3858
02:19:17,450 --> 02:19:15,179
they have anomalous experiences

3859
02:19:19,250 --> 02:19:17,460
thank you Leslie thank you so much Kurt

3860
02:19:21,770 --> 02:19:19,260
appreciate it very much

3861
02:19:23,929 --> 02:19:21,780
don't go anywhere one of the best videos

3862
02:19:25,250 --> 02:19:23,939
on toe was just released and I can say

3863
02:19:27,589 --> 02:19:25,260
that confidently because it's

3864
02:19:29,629 --> 02:19:27,599
technically not ours but instead yours

3865
02:19:31,669 --> 02:19:29,639
it's the list of winners and runner-ups

3866
02:19:34,009 --> 02:19:31,679
for the physics and explication contest

3867
02:19:36,110 --> 02:19:34,019
recently launched on tow visit the link

3868
02:19:37,910 --> 02:19:36,120
in the description thank you to all of

3869
02:19:40,310 --> 02:19:37,920
the winners and congratulations to

3870
02:19:42,290 --> 02:19:40,320
everyone that video covers various

3871
02:19:44,209 --> 02:19:42,300
explanations to reality to Advanced

3872
02:19:45,770 --> 02:19:44,219
physics techniques and Concepts put

3873
02:19:47,690 --> 02:19:45,780
forward by several of the people in the

3874
02:19:50,030 --> 02:19:47,700
theories of everything community

3875
02:19:51,650 --> 02:19:50,040
the podcast is now concluded thank you

3876
02:19:53,510 --> 02:19:51,660
for watching if you haven't subscribed

3877
02:19:55,550 --> 02:19:53,520
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3878
02:19:58,310 --> 02:19:55,560
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3879
02:20:00,349 --> 02:19:58,320
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3880
02:20:02,150 --> 02:20:00,359
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3881
02:20:04,550 --> 02:20:02,160
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02:20:12,349 --> 02:20:10,500
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02:20:16,250 --> 02:20:14,399
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3889
02:20:20,230 --> 02:20:17,880
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3890
02:20:22,310 --> 02:20:20,240
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3891
02:20:24,530 --> 02:20:22,320
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3892
02:20:26,929 --> 02:20:24,540
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